If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
I went to buy the Marinated Chicken or Tuna Feast in Savory Juices, as
Phil had pointed out, they are low in phosphorus. And low in kilocalories, I might add. BUT, it's now Marinated Morsels Chicken [or Tuna] Feast in Gravy, grrrr. New Bite Size! Whoppee. Web site, click here for more info. Get a bigger picture of the can. Gee thanks. I go to the web site. No info whatsoever, just dumb pictures. These come out of focus groups which I once attended. I kept complaining, give some info on the cans, at least kilocalories. But no, they were interested only in the type of font and how big the picture which looks like an ice cream dish instead of meat for a cat. Here cat, see the big picture? So I telephoned but I could not get through to any one. Too busy. No wonder if you have to call and plead for info. They will mail the info, so it takes about a week if you do get through. You can ask on the phone but some of the info is not correct. Best to get it in writing. So Phil P. or anyone, do you know yet the new specs for this "new" food. I would like it to be the same as the old. Finally found some supermarkets that carry no more than 2 of the good types of Fancy Feast, those with no more, as a general rule, 0.80% OR LESS phosphorus. Sometimes I go to 0.95% but rarely. I like to keep the phosphorus low since there is talk and research that high phosphorus might initiate urinary tract problems or diseases later down the road. Why do they make it so hard to get this basic info? They are a BIG company. Is it because they have Fancy Feast that is sky high in phosphorus levels? They don't want to publish the specs? It's a real and unnecessary aggravation. And makes me suspicious and want to find alternative cat foods. Know any that I could buy outside the pet stores? Anybody? The old ones we *Marinated Chicken Feast in Savory Juices: 0.09% (AF) - 0.40% (DMB) 78 kcals *Marinated Salmon Feast in Savory Juices: 0.13% (AF) - 0.59% (DMB) 80 kcals These were extremely low in phosphorus and lower in kcals than many. So quite attractive to me and my cat loved them. The DMB is Dry Matter Basis which is the AF (As Fed) divived by the moisture content, which is usually 78% for Fancy Feast, all different types. I have yet to find a Fancy Feast that is not 78% water, which is a common benchmark for the canned cat food industry. |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
Steve Crane wrote:
wrote: Why do they make it so hard to get this basic info? They are a BIG company. Is it because they have Fancy Feast that is sky high in phosphorus levels? They don't want to publish the specs? It's a real and unnecessary aggravation. And makes me suspicious and want to find alternative cat foods. Know any that I could buy outside the pet stores? Anybody? I suspect the biggest problem is what lot of food do you want values for? Phosphorus levels in most such foods are not a key part of the process, just an outcome that sometimes is good, and sometimes is not, depending upon the shift it was produced and the raw ingredients used today. I doubt seriously that you would find consistencey between different lots of this food over time. If there is no consistency, then publishing the data becomes problematic. If a consumer expects to purchase a food with X% of some nutrient, and the product contains 2X% of the ingredient, the manufacturer has a problem. On the other hand if no data is provided, then the food can be 1X, 2X, or 10X and the manufacturer has no concerns. Are you sure about this - do you have some kind of reference? I appreciate your taking the time to post this but I think and I hope what you say is not so for the companies I am interested in but may be so for many others.10X, no way unless it's a no-name brand from a no-name country or maybe one of those super holistic expensive types, like Newman's who never tell me what's in their products. Science Diet and I suspect Purina simply do not operate in this fashion. Purina will mail to me the details which they could not if your above supposition was correct for Purina. Your ideas may be correct for all those who do not publish because they are not tracking the levels. But they should not vary as much as you say unless it's really a free for all operation. But who knows? Who analyzes the foods? Phosphorus levels are tracked and are key and not trivial because of health concerns. Generally the really stable food makers, like Science Diet, in my experience, keep the food to certain standards. For example, Science Diet will keep the pH of most of their non-senior foods to 6.2 to 6.4. That's an important achievement in my estimation and one that they are really using "science" in Science Diet. Most of the other companies do not even know the pH or cannot tell me what I call. Maybe you're right. But I think if you can track pH levels, there is an indication that the levels of the various nutrients are also being tracked. So is my hope in this regard. I must depend on the kindness of large corporations which is well, depending on the kindness of strangers sometimes works and sometimes just about gets you killed. And staying alive is what this is all about. In any case, Purina is one of those huge conglomerates in which some things are done right but most is for the superficial without much substance. This is why they don't publish ALL their data. Science Data, on the other hand, publishes everything on their website, www.hillspet.com, right down to the pH levels, the As Fed and Dry Mater Basis levels, the kilocalories, how much to feed. For example: The following is from Hill's Pet which makes Science Diet and has almost all the information I could possibly want, free, out in public. I would give up having an all natural product when presented with something that is spelled out in detail, the good and the bad. In this case, the consistancy you refer to is key for me! and her felineness. You'll notice that Science Diet has a minimum guarantee of phosphorus. Do they always achieve their proportions? I believe they make an effort to do so. One reason cats fed Science Diet do not have the urinary problems of other cats is because Science Diet makes an effort to use some science. This is what a vet told me and what I have observed. The other cat foods sold in supermarkets are sky high in phosphorus, easily twice to three times the amount of phosphorus. And if out of proportion to calcium. Not a good combination. I once asked Pet Guard who makes premium products sold in specialty stores and organic food stores, what is their calcium to phosphorus ratio - they never could tell me! So their products are fabulous but how do I ascertain that a proper balance is maintained between Calcium and Phosphorus. I cannot so I stopped buying their products. Wysong is like Pet Guard but publishes all the details. So I buy their pure products, a few of which are not fortified or balanced, but when I want pure meat for my cat as an addition, almost as good as cooking a chicken for her but without the hassles. http://www.hillspet.com/zSkin_2/prod...=1131255959888 Gourmet Turkey Entrée Adult [SCIENCE DIET] Tempt your Cat with the terrific taste of turkey, and keep her strong and healthy at the same time. Gourmet Turkey Entrée Adult Cat Food not only tastes great, it has all the essential nutrients cats need to stay strong and healthy. Key Benefits * Adult Canned was developed to meet the nutrient and energy needs for adult cats 1 to 6 years of age. * Adult is available in a variety of formulas to suit individual tastes. * Enriched with taurine to help maintain good vision and a healthy heart * Low magnesium * Tastes great- money-back guarantee Daily Feeding Guide Cover and refrigerate unused portion. These ranges are a starting point only. Your pet may need less or more food to maintain proper weight. Adjust as needed. If you are unsure, ask your veterinarian. Feeding this food for the first time? Mix increasing amounts of your pet's new food with decreasing amounts of the old food over a 7-day period. When using with dry food, decrease the amount of canned food to avoid overfeeding. Adult maintenance - using 3 oz (85 g) can Weight of Cat Amount per Day 5 lb (2,3 kg) 1 1/2 - 2 can 10 lb (4,5 kg) 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 can 15 lb (6,8 kg) 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 can Adult maintenance - using 5.5 oz (156 g) can Weight of Cat Amount per Day 5 lb (2,3 kg) 3/4 - 1 can 10 lb (4,5 kg) 1 1/3 - 1 3/4 can 15 lb (6,8 kg) 1 3/4 - 2 1/2 can Adult maintenance - using 14.25 oz (404 g) can Weight of Cat Amount per Day 5 lb (2,3 kg) 1/3 - 3/8 can 10 lb (4,5 kg) 1/2 - 2/3 can 15 lb (6,8 kg) 2/3 - 1 can Product Characteristics This product, by design, has the following characteristics: High-Quality Protein Helps maintain strong bones and muscles. Contains all essential amino acids including taurine to help ensure optimal heart and eye health Essential Fatty Acids Help maintain proper function of nervous and immune systems, as well as promote healthy skin and a shiny coat. Digestible Carbohydrates Supply abundant energy for adult cats. Vitamins and Minerals Provide an ideal balance of vitamins and minerals for adult cats. Target Urine pH Normal acid (6.2 - 6.4)* *Urine pH of individual cats may vary due to complicating factors such as: time of feeding before urine collection, type of urine collection, individual animal variation, and test methodology. Metabolizable Energy¹ (Caloric Content) Canned 1117 kcal/kg (95 kcal/ 85 g can 174 kcal/ 156 g can 451 kcal/ 404 g can ) ¹Measurement of Usable Energy in a food, which differs substantially from gross caloric content. Average Nutrient Contents Nutrient Nutrient Guarantee %As Fed1 %Dry Matter2 %As Fed, Caloric Basis3 g/100 kcal Protein 9.5 min 11.0 44.0 9.8 Fat 5.0 min 6.2 24.8 5.6 Carbohydrate (NFE) 5.7 22.8 5.1 Crude Fiber 0.8 max 0.6 2.4 0.5 mg/100 kcal3 Calcium 0.12 min 0.20 0.80 179 Phosphorus 0.10 min 0.18 0.72 161 Sodium 0.08 0.32 72 Potassium 0.18 0.72 161 Magnesium 0.024 max 0.020 0.080 18 Taurine 0.05 min 0.08 0.32 72 ¹Differs from label guarantees which are either maximums or minimums. ²The nutrient in the product after moisture is removed. It is used to make direct comparisons of nutrient profiles of products with differing moisture contents. ³Nutrient intake for every 100 kilocalories consumed. Ingredients Water, turkey, liver, corn meal, corn gluten meal, chicken liver flavor, powdered cellulose, guar gum, xanthan gum, locust bean gum, DL-Methionine, taurine, minerals (calcium sulfate, dicalcium phosphate, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, zinc oxide, ferrous sulfate, copper sulfate, manganous oxide, calcium iodate, sodium selenite), vitamins (choline chloride, vitamin D3 supplement, vitamin E supplement, thiamine, niacin, calcium pantothenate, pyridoxine hydrochloride, riboflavin, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12 supplement). Not bad eh? At least I know what I am getting, in nutrients, in chemicals or what not, and it's not too bad, considering. Actually this does not have by products so I kind of like it although it's a tad higher in kilocalories than I like for her highness. Again, thanks for your reply. I do not mean to quarrel but to discuss. Your point is well taken and a bit scary. |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
Treeline,
I think Steve's point is that Purina does not employ a fixed formula for their grocery store foods (and maybe not even for their other offerings??). Therefore, to receive specific data would be useless since it would only refer to that single batch. Perhaps Purina could give you some more insight on whether or not they stick to a fixed formula and if not, then why not? |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
wrote in message oups.com... Good point, I just looked up the PDF that Phil P. sent me and posted here. There is not a min and a max for the phosphorus so I don't know what that is. I sent you Nutrient Profiles (proximate analyses) which list the actual nutrient contents in the food. The min/max is only the guaranteed analysis which is *not* the actual nutrient contents. The GA is more harmful than helpful because its misleading. And compared to the calcium levels, it's out of whack for the 5 Fancy Feasts that are not sky high in phosphorus. What do you consider "out of whack"? Cats can easily tolerate up to 1.25:1 or even a little higher. The C/P ratio of most diets fall within the range of 1.1:1 to 1.25:1. The C/P ratios must meet the AAFCO requirements- so I don't know what you're so worried about. Simple solution: Buy only the diets that meet your C/P ratio requirements. |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
Phil P. wrote:
wrote in message oups.com... Good point, I just looked up the PDF that Phil P. sent me and posted here. There is not a min and a max for the phosphorus so I don't know what that is. I sent you Nutrient Profiles (proximate analyses) which list the actual nutrient contents in the food. The min/max is only the guaranteed analysis which is *not* the actual nutrient contents. The GA is more harmful than helpful because its misleading. True dat. And compared to the calcium levels, it's out of whack for the 5 Fancy Feasts that are not sky high in phosphorus. What do you consider "out of whack"? Cats can easily tolerate up to 1.25:1 or even a little higher. The C/P ratio of most diets fall within the range of 1.1:1 to 1.25:1. The C/P ratios must meet the AAFCO requirements- so I don't know what you're so worried about. Simple solution: Buy only the diets that meet your C/P ratio requirements. Out of whack is above 0.80% phosphorus. Although I go to 0.95% for some Fancy Feasts. Really when it's getting way over 1% near 2% phosphorus is truly out of whack. My writing was not clear. I was not referring to the C/P ratios but the percentage of phosphorus or P. I get your AAFCO reference - if any food meets that standard or requirement, then I can assume the Calcium:Phosphorus ratios are 1.25:1 down to 1.1:1. That's so very helpful to know since I did not hear back from some manufacturers about this, Pet Guard and Newman's as I recall off hand and a third premium brand I cannot remember. If the pet food meets AAFCO standards, then this is not a concern. |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
|
#9
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
wrote in message oups.com... Phil P. wrote: wrote in message oups.com... Good point, I just looked up the PDF that Phil P. sent me and posted here. There is not a min and a max for the phosphorus so I don't know what that is. I sent you Nutrient Profiles (proximate analyses) which list the actual nutrient contents in the food. The min/max is only the guaranteed analysis which is *not* the actual nutrient contents. The GA is more harmful than helpful because its misleading. True dat. And compared to the calcium levels, it's out of whack for the 5 Fancy Feasts that are not sky high in phosphorus. What do you consider "out of whack"? Cats can easily tolerate up to 1.25:1 or even a little higher. The C/P ratio of most diets fall within the range of 1.1:1 to 1.25:1. The C/P ratios must meet the AAFCO requirements- so I don't know what you're so worried about. Simple solution: Buy only the diets that meet your C/P ratio requirements. Out of whack is above 0.80% phosphorus. Although I go to 0.95% for some Fancy Feasts. Really when it's getting way over 1% near 2% phosphorus is truly out of whack. My writing was not clear. I was not referring to the C/P ratios but the percentage of phosphorus or P. Interestingly, an adult mouse contains 2.98% Ca and 1.72% P (DMB). What's that- about 1.7: 1? Those figures come from the "Nutrient Composition of Whole Vertebrate Prey" by the Animal Health Center, Wildlife Conservation Society (a/k/a The Bronx Zoo). Now there's great a job! I get your AAFCO reference - if any food meets that standard or requirement, then I can assume the Calcium:Phosphorus ratios are 1.25:1 down to 1.1:1. That's so very helpful to know since I did not hear back from some manufacturers about this, Pet Guard and Newman's as I recall off hand and a third premium brand I cannot remember. If the pet food meets AAFCO standards, then this is not a concern. Yup. The AAFCO seal means the C:P ratio is correct. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
Phosphorus and kilocalories of "new" Marinated Morsels by Fancy Feast
"Steve Crane" wrote in message oups.com... I think it's important to understand that AAFCO Min/Max levels are based on NRC (National Research Council) levels. Those were established in 1977, slightly altered in 1981 and 1985. In many caes the nutrient min/max levels are the same as those first determined in 1977. We've learned a lot about nutrition in the last thirty years. New NRC standards have been proposed but so far have not yet been completed nor "published" to take effect. Another thing that bothers me about the NRC is that they used purified diets- so, the nutrient determinations don't really apply to commercial diets. That's probably why the AAFCO raised the minimum requirements. Whatdaya think? |
|
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|