another cat fighting question

I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
considerably larger than the one-half year old female cat we introduced
to the house earlier this year (about twelve lbs. to four lbs.). Since
we got her (the littler one), the older male cat has wanted to get at
her and rough her up. We've tried to allow them to get used to each
other by rotating them out of rooms to get used to the scents, having
them paw at each other under doors, and oocasionally eat together and
sit together while I and my wife each hold one. When the little girl
runs around in the same room as the older male, the look in his eye is
the same as when a toy is dangled. He hunches down, he gets 'saucer
eyes', and he pins his ears down ready to attack. I think he thinks
she's a toy to be attacked. She's at the age where she wants to run and
jump and climb so when she's in the same room as he is, he goes crazy
trying to go after her. When they are left together, he jumps on her,
she submissively rolls on her back, and they clamp down on each other
and bite and fight. I'm afraid he's going to seriously hurt her, but at
the same time I don't know what to do to get them to at least get along
in the same room for more than a minute. The irony is that we got her
as a playmate for him, but all he wants to do is make friendly playing
impossible. We've squirted them with water bottles to no avail. He just
doesn't care. He seems driven to go after her. And it doesn't even
appear to be a territory thing. It seems like an instinct to attack
another small moving creature, as though the girl were a bird or a
mouse. Now that she's a little older herself, she wants to nip at his
tail and ears, and stick her face into and nibble his face so that
doesn't help either. Does anyone have any advice about a cat who is
bound and determined to fight with his little would-be friend? If I let
them at it, will he seriously hurt her? I've heard some people advocate
letting cats settle things on their own terms, but I'm wary of that
since he is bigger and much stronger than she is.

-Marcus

I think you need to start all over by separating them and placing the new
cat in a room of her own. Provide her with food, water, litter, and a bed.
Slowly let them see each other if possible through a screen door. When they
no longer hiss at each other, you can slowly let them see each other without
the screen. This process takes awhile. I introduced a kitten to my 2 year
old cat, and it was over 3 weeks before I let them touch each other without
the screen. You can also buy Feliway diffusers and place them where the cats
will be. Many people feel that these help calm the cats.
Gail
wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
considerably larger than the one-half year old female cat we introduced
to the house earlier this year (about twelve lbs. to four lbs.). Since
we got her (the littler one), the older male cat has wanted to get at
her and rough her up. We've tried to allow them to get used to each
other by rotating them out of rooms to get used to the scents, having
them paw at each other under doors, and oocasionally eat together and
sit together while I and my wife each hold one. When the little girl
runs around in the same room as the older male, the look in his eye is
the same as when a toy is dangled. He hunches down, he gets 'saucer
eyes', and he pins his ears down ready to attack. I think he thinks
she's a toy to be attacked. She's at the age where she wants to run and
jump and climb so when she's in the same room as he is, he goes crazy
trying to go after her. When they are left together, he jumps on her,
she submissively rolls on her back, and they clamp down on each other
and bite and fight. I'm afraid he's going to seriously hurt her, but at
the same time I don't know what to do to get them to at least get along
in the same room for more than a minute. The irony is that we got her
as a playmate for him, but all he wants to do is make friendly playing
impossible. We've squirted them with water bottles to no avail. He just
doesn't care. He seems driven to go after her. And it doesn't even
appear to be a territory thing. It seems like an instinct to attack
another small moving creature, as though the girl were a bird or a
mouse. Now that she's a little older herself, she wants to nip at his
tail and ears, and stick her face into and nibble his face so that
doesn't help either. Does anyone have any advice about a cat who is
bound and determined to fight with his little would-be friend? If I let
them at it, will he seriously hurt her? I've heard some people advocate
letting cats settle things on their own terms, but I'm wary of that
since he is bigger and much stronger than she is.

-Marcus

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
considerably larger than the one-half year old female cat we introduced
to the house earlier this year (about twelve lbs. to four lbs.). Since
we got her (the littler one), the older male cat has wanted to get at
her and rough her up. We've tried to allow them to get used to each
other by rotating them out of rooms to get used to the scents, having
them paw at each other under doors, and oocasionally eat together and
sit together while I and my wife each hold one.

-Marcus


I agree with what Gail wrote. You need to do a complete re-introduction,
and this time you need to take it slowly and carefully -- step-by-step.
Feliway diffusers/dispenser can be very helpful. I have written to this
group on several occasions in which I described the process I used when I
introduced Duffy to Holly (greatly aided by advice from a long-time
contributor to this newsgroup). If you would like to read one of the
articles, you can find one at this location: http://tinyurl.com/8llwh

There are also a number of sites on the Internet the provide information on
introducing cats. I have not checked these links for some time, but most of
them should still be available:

http://www.catcaresociety.org/intro.htm
http://www.ddfl.org/behavior/catintro.htm
http://www.cuhumane.org/topics/catcat.html
http://www.methuen-mspca.org/petcare/htm/catintro.htm
http://operationnoblefoster.org/catsanddog.htm
http://www.catsinternational.org/ (library of articles)

You can also see a "pictorial history" of the introduction if you click on
the links below my signature.

Good luck!

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
http://tinyurl.com/8y54 (Introducing Duffy to Holly)
http://tinyurl.com/8y56 (Duffy and Holly "settle in")

" wrote:

....

The first thing I would do is clip the aggressor's claws. It can
help prevent injury and requires no persistent human intervention
(which is usually difficult to impossible and can produce unwanted
side effects).

I just clipped Kitty's claws this morning. He was sleeping
comfortably on my secondary monitor. I picked him up, spoke softly
while moving him into a bright light area, sat on him (butt under my
butt and head between my knees) and began clipping his claws. The
job was done without incident and only a little crying.

In article ,
John Doe wrote:
" wrote:

...

The first thing I would do is clip the aggressor's claws. It can
help prevent injury and requires no persistent human intervention
(which is usually difficult to impossible and can produce unwanted
side effects).

I just clipped Kitty's claws this morning. He was sleeping
comfortably on my secondary monitor. I picked him up, spoke softly
while moving him into a bright light area, sat on him (butt under my
butt and head between my knees) and began clipping his claws. The
job was done without incident and only a little crying.


Good idea. Prevent any real damage to the one that is being bullied.

When I clip Bubba's nails I usually can only get 2 or 3 at
a time, max, before it turns into a war so I just do the
two or three a day until I get them all. It's amazing how
strong a 22 pound Maine Coon really is, even when all he seems
to do is lay around all day. If I catch him asleep, though, I
can get a couple clips in before he wakes up and figures out
he's losing his sharps.


Claude

On 30 Dec 2005 01:56:57 GMT, (Claude V. Lucas)
wrote:

In article ,
John Doe wrote:
" wrote:

...

The first thing I would do is clip the aggressor's claws. It can
help prevent injury and requires no persistent human intervention
(which is usually difficult to impossible and can produce unwanted
side effects).

I just clipped Kitty's claws this morning. He was sleeping
comfortably on my secondary monitor. I picked him up, spoke softly
while moving him into a bright light area, sat on him (butt under my
butt and head between my knees) and began clipping his claws. The
job was done without incident and only a little crying.


Good idea. Prevent any real damage to the one that is being bullied.

When I clip Bubba's nails I usually can only get 2 or 3 at
a time, max, before it turns into a war so I just do the
two or three a day until I get them all. It's amazing how
strong a 22 pound Maine Coon really is, even when all he seems
to do is lay around all day. If I catch him asleep, though, I
can get a couple clips in before he wakes up and figures out
he's losing his sharps.


Claude

22 pound Maine Coon? Try a 14 pound Bengal - he looks like he weighs 8
or 9 pounds, and is all muscle. It's like rassling a snake.

BLink

On 29 Dec 2005 10:03:31 -0800, "
wrote:

I'm new to the group so this question may have been answered numerous
times already. I have a one-and-a-half year old male cat who is
considerably larger than the one-half year old female cat we introduced
to the house earlier this year (about twelve lbs. to four lbs.). Since
we got her (the littler one), the older male cat has wanted to get at
her and rough her up. We've tried to allow them to get used to each
other by rotating them out of rooms to get used to the scents, having
them paw at each other under doors, and oocasionally eat together and
sit together while I and my wife each hold one. When the little girl
runs around in the same room as the older male, the look in his eye is
the same as when a toy is dangled. He hunches down, he gets 'saucer
eyes', and he pins his ears down ready to attack. I think he thinks
she's a toy to be attacked. She's at the age where she wants to run and
jump and climb so when she's in the same room as he is, he goes crazy
trying to go after her. When they are left together, he jumps on her,
she submissively rolls on her back, and they clamp down on each other
and bite and fight. I'm afraid he's going to seriously hurt her, but at
the same time I don't know what to do to get them to at least get along
in the same room for more than a minute. The irony is that we got her
as a playmate for him, but all he wants to do is make friendly playing
impossible. We've squirted them with water bottles to no avail. He just
doesn't care. He seems driven to go after her. And it doesn't even
appear to be a territory thing. It seems like an instinct to attack
another small moving creature, as though the girl were a bird or a
mouse. Now that she's a little older herself, she wants to nip at his
tail and ears, and stick her face into and nibble his face so that
doesn't help either. Does anyone have any advice about a cat who is
bound and determined to fight with his little would-be friend? If I let
them at it, will he seriously hurt her? I've heard some people advocate
letting cats settle things on their own terms, but I'm wary of that
since he is bigger and much stronger than she is.

-Marcus

Good advice being given - it's a long and patient process introducing
cats.

One thing I'll point out though - NEVER grab a couple fighting cats.
We had a botched introduction a few months ago where the new female
insisted on pulling rank on our two happy residents.

I've grabbed cats before when fighting (natural instinct), and gotten
some horrible infections out of it. When I heard Chloe battling, the
first thing I did was find a blanket, a shirt, a towel, and grabbed it
first. Then I flung it over her, and while she was subdued, grabbed
her adversary and popped him in a different room (our cats were always
quick to recover after a joust, and never mauled me, though that can't
be guaranteed).

Going back to square one, and several weeks, has resulted in an uneasy
truce. I may never see Chloe cuddling Tiger or Louis, but they are
happy in different parts of the house, and have a polite disengagement
they employ any time they find themselves in the same place at the
same time.

BLink

In article ,
Brian Link wrote:
On 30 Dec 2005 01:56:57 GMT, (Claude V. Lucas)
wrote:

In article ,
John Doe wrote:
" wrote:

...

The first thing I would do is clip the aggressor's claws. It can
help prevent injury and requires no persistent human intervention
(which is usually difficult to impossible and can produce unwanted
side effects).

I just clipped Kitty's claws this morning. He was sleeping
comfortably on my secondary monitor. I picked him up, spoke softly
while moving him into a bright light area, sat on him (butt under my
butt and head between my knees) and began clipping his claws. The
job was done without incident and only a little crying.


Good idea. Prevent any real damage to the one that is being bullied.

When I clip Bubba's nails I usually can only get 2 or 3 at
a time, max, before it turns into a war so I just do the
two or three a day until I get them all. It's amazing how
strong a 22 pound Maine Coon really is, even when all he seems
to do is lay around all day. If I catch him asleep, though, I
can get a couple clips in before he wakes up and figures out
he's losing his sharps.


Claude

22 pound Maine Coon? Try a 14 pound Bengal - he looks like he weighs 8
or 9 pounds, and is all muscle. It's like rassling a snake.


Cat rassling is a no-win, somebody bleeds, event.

Much easier to catch them sleeping.

If I tried to hold Bubba like the earlier poster does his cat and
clip his nails, I'd wind up as neutered as he is. LOL...

Claude

(Claude V. Lucas) wrote:


If I tried to hold Bubba like the earlier poster does his cat and
clip his nails, I'd wind up as neutered as he is. LOL...

Trying to hold on to one of its paws without immobilizing the rest
doesn't work for anything. The hindquarter is immobilized and
doesn't move. The risk is to my legs around the knee area, my
eyes/face, and hands. But it's the most secure method I know of
without using a helper or some contraption.

In article ,
John Doe wrote:
(Claude V. Lucas) wrote:


If I tried to hold Bubba like the earlier poster does his cat and
clip his nails, I'd wind up as neutered as he is. LOL...

Trying to hold on to one of its paws without immobilizing the rest
doesn't work for anything. The hindquarter is immobilized and
doesn't move. The risk is to my legs around the knee area, my
eyes/face, and hands. But it's the most secure method I know of
without using a helper or some contraption.


I'm glad that works for you.

Bubba is too big and too strong and wiggles with all his
strength when I try and pin him down like that. If I
do a couple or three claws at a time before he objects
I can keep them in a non-lethal state without having kitty
Wrestlemania and needing stitches afterward. He only needs
trimming every couple of months or so anyway.


Claude