Litterbox problem. Help Please!

I have a two related questions to pose to the group.

The first relates to an older cat who is having problems using the litter
box on occasion.

Background: I have two cats. The female since she was a kitten. One year
after that, I decided to get her a companion, a male I found at an animal
shelter. His age was not definite, but the shelter owners claimed he was 2,
this is probably accurate within a year or so, so both cats are close in
age. Both cats were neutered before they were ever placed together. The
female took some time to adjust to the new presence but with a lot of
patience on our parts, she finally got used to him over a period of a couple
of weeks. She has remained the more aggressive and territorial of the two
throughout their relationship, while he has always been gentler, calmer, and
submissive since the day he came to live with us (indeed, their response to
their owners has always been the same as well: she is possessive of her
owner and jealous when he gets the attention; she likes affection but is
aggressive in her interaction and play; he has always been an absolute
sweetheart from day one).

Anyway, the female is now 12 years old, and he is somewhere in the 12-14
range, so they have been together for many years. Occasionally, in years
past, I would discover large hidden collections of feces in out of the way
places, for example behind the television set, and in the back corner of the
closet. Based on the amount of droppings, it clearly had been occurring for
a long period of time when I finally cleaned there and discovered it. In
certain areas of the apartment, I would sometimes walk around and get a waft
of urine smell, although I never found a wet spot or stain anywhere. It
became clear that the female was not using the litter box regularly. Most
of the time she does, but periodically does not. The male has never had
this problem. Except on very rare occasions, I scoop out the contents of
the litter box daily, and replace the litter when it gets rather low.
Admittedly, I do not wash and completely replace the litter in the box very
often.

Perhaps 3 or 4 years ago, things took a disturbing turn. I finally found a
wet spot. It was on my bed right where I sleep, near my pillow. She had
urinated on the bed. Since that night, she periodically defecates and
urinates in the exact same spot, rather than use the litter box in those
instances. I have now slept on a vinyl-lined mattress cover in order to
protect my king-size mattress from damage for the past few years. In
addition, I use an old rain poncho as a dropcloth that protects that quarter
of the bed and bedspread which I must lay out without fail every single
morning or panic that my blanket and sheets might be ruined before I get
back home. She clearly likes that spot, as her behavior has continued for
these past few years and always hits the rain poncho squarely. At least
this has spared my bed and linens any further damage. Still, I find the
situation maddening. Feces is easy enough to deal with, but urine is a
mess, even when I only have to scrub a rain poncho. Last night, I readied
for bed, exhausted, but discovered I could not retire until I took care of a
warm malodorous puddle on my rain poncho. I decided last night that no
matter how attached I may be to the animal, if a definitive solution to the
behavior cannot be discovered, the cat will be moving to a shelter. It is
simply not worth the aggravation anymore. Any attempts to discipline her or
train her not to do this and retrain her to use her litter box have been
unsuccessful. After all, she does use the litter box 90-95% of the time, so
she knows where it is and prefers to use it. Her decision not to, and even
moreso, her decision to use my bed as her single alternative, is clearly
just that, a decision, with a definite agenda.

When the problem first moved to the bed, a few years ago, I asked the vet
about the problem. She told me to get a second litter box. A multiple cat
household should always have multiple litter boxes, said she. Occasionally,
I put out a second box when I have to leave town for a few days and they are
to be left alone, and generally she does not use the bed if the other litter
box is out, even when neither is cleaned for a few days, so at face value,
this could solve the problem. However, I do not want to care for two boxes
permanently. I do not have room in my bathroom for a second box, and I
really would prefer not to have a litter box in my bedroom, living room,
etc. Besides, I am so careful about scooping the box out daily that it
shouldn’t be a problem.

I guess my first question is whether anyone else here has dealt with a
similar problem. What do you attribute this behavior to? How did anyone
else deal with it, short of getting rid of the cat? Is the vet’s advice
sound? Is a second permanent box the only solution?

My other question relates to automatic electric litter boxes that self clean
after each use. I’m thinking that this could be the solution, assuming the
cat’s main objection is that she doesn’t want to use a box that has another
cat’s waste in it. I have a coworker who has two cats and one of these
machines, and swears by it. In some ways, purchasing one of these is
capitulating anyway, since the models I have seen would not fit well in my
bathroom currently, so I would need to find a place for it in another part
of the apartment anyway, but at least I would still have one box to deal
with and not two, and there clearly would be less maintenance for me once it
was set up. Of course, they also are relatively expensive, although as a
one-time cost I’m not that concerned, IF it solves the problem, since both
cats are likely to live several more years and I would prefer to keep them
both for their natural lifespans.

So, the next question is do you think this investment is likely to be a
successful way to deal with the problem?

Finally, I would like some advice and feedback on any of the models of
automatic litter boxes. I went to the local Petsmart today and looked at
all the models. They all do basically the same thing, but differ
significantly in price, size, and appearance. They probably have different
ongoing overhead costs in terms of replacing liners, other parts, and the
like. I’m also curious just how well they function. It’s easy to scoop out
one solid clump of urine, but sometimes they urinate on the bottom of the
box rather than directly into litter, therefore the urine basically spreads
out over the bottom. The litter still absorbs the urine once the cats bury
their handiwork but now instead of being a round discrete clump, it is more
of widely dispersed wet clay that sometimes takes time to scrape off the
bottom in order to get it all out of the box. How would an electric box,
with it’s automatic “rake” deal with this situation? I just imagine that
the blades of the rake would sift through and slice up the urine soaked
clay, but not necessarily pick it all up and deposit it in the bin.

What I’m looking for here is any product feedback you all can give me. Who
has experience with the following models? How satisfied are you with it?
What are the best/worst features of that particular machine? What are the
approximate ongoing costs for the parts you need to replace periodically?
Is it worth it?

Littermaid $100 (also available in a Mega size for $160, but doesn’t look
that much larger, so I’m not sure if paying the extra $60 could possibly be
worth it; after all the whole point is that each time the cat enters it,
they are entering a newly cleaned box, so what’s the point of the larger
size?) This is the one my coworker has (standard size) and he says it works
great for his two cats.

Littersweep Ultra (Stylette) $80

Purrforma Plus XL (Petmate) $200 (it should provide bidet service for the
cats for $200, Jeez!)

Scoopfree $140 (Apparently from the makers of Freshstep Litter, they sell
special replacement trays pre-filled with Freshstep, could be expensive to
maintain)

I’m sorry that my first post to these groups is so long, but I did want to
be thorough in my explanations and needs.

TIA

Shy Guy

Your vet is correct except you need THREE litter boxes. I can't believe
you would consider getting rid of the cat rather than get another litter
box. Be prepared for a lot of flames about that.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

I can't believe you'd consider putting a 12 year old cat in the shelter
instead of putting out a few bucks on a much needed second litter box. I
don't care how small your apartment is, there is always a little room some
where for another box. I just can't get over the fact that you've had this
poor girl for some long and now you want to just "throw her away" instead of
fixing the problem. I sure hope you have someone a little more caring to
take care of you when you become a "problem".
"Shy Guy" wrote in message
...
I have a two related questions to pose to the group.

The first relates to an older cat who is having problems using the litter
box on occasion.

Background: I have two cats. The female since she was a kitten. One
year
after that, I decided to get her a companion, a male I found at an animal
shelter. His age was not definite, but the shelter owners claimed he was
2,
this is probably accurate within a year or so, so both cats are close in
age. Both cats were neutered before they were ever placed together. The
female took some time to adjust to the new presence but with a lot of
patience on our parts, she finally got used to him over a period of a
couple
of weeks. She has remained the more aggressive and territorial of the two
throughout their relationship, while he has always been gentler, calmer,
and
submissive since the day he came to live with us (indeed, their response
to
their owners has always been the same as well: she is possessive of her
owner and jealous when he gets the attention; she likes affection but is
aggressive in her interaction and play; he has always been an absolute
sweetheart from day one).

Anyway, the female is now 12 years old, and he is somewhere in the 12-14
range, so they have been together for many years. Occasionally, in years
past, I would discover large hidden collections of feces in out of the way
places, for example behind the television set, and in the back corner of
the
closet. Based on the amount of droppings, it clearly had been occurring
for
a long period of time when I finally cleaned there and discovered it. In
certain areas of the apartment, I would sometimes walk around and get a
waft
of urine smell, although I never found a wet spot or stain anywhere. It
became clear that the female was not using the litter box regularly. Most
of the time she does, but periodically does not. The male has never had
this problem. Except on very rare occasions, I scoop out the contents of
the litter box daily, and replace the litter when it gets rather low.
Admittedly, I do not wash and completely replace the litter in the box
very
often.

Perhaps 3 or 4 years ago, things took a disturbing turn. I finally found
a
wet spot. It was on my bed right where I sleep, near my pillow. She had
urinated on the bed. Since that night, she periodically defecates and
urinates in the exact same spot, rather than use the litter box in those
instances. I have now slept on a vinyl-lined mattress cover in order to
protect my king-size mattress from damage for the past few years. In
addition, I use an old rain poncho as a dropcloth that protects that
quarter
of the bed and bedspread which I must lay out without fail every single
morning or panic that my blanket and sheets might be ruined before I get
back home. She clearly likes that spot, as her behavior has continued for
these past few years and always hits the rain poncho squarely. At least
this has spared my bed and linens any further damage. Still, I find the
situation maddening. Feces is easy enough to deal with, but urine is a
mess, even when I only have to scrub a rain poncho. Last night, I readied
for bed, exhausted, but discovered I could not retire until I took care of
a
warm malodorous puddle on my rain poncho. I decided last night that no
matter how attached I may be to the animal, if a definitive solution to
the
behavior cannot be discovered, the cat will be moving to a shelter. It is
simply not worth the aggravation anymore. Any attempts to discipline her
or
train her not to do this and retrain her to use her litter box have been
unsuccessful. After all, she does use the litter box 90-95% of the time,
so
she knows where it is and prefers to use it. Her decision not to, and
even
moreso, her decision to use my bed as her single alternative, is clearly
just that, a decision, with a definite agenda.

When the problem first moved to the bed, a few years ago, I asked the vet
about the problem. She told me to get a second litter box. A multiple
cat
household should always have multiple litter boxes, said she.
Occasionally,
I put out a second box when I have to leave town for a few days and they
are
to be left alone, and generally she does not use the bed if the other
litter
box is out, even when neither is cleaned for a few days, so at face value,
this could solve the problem. However, I do not want to care for two
boxes
permanently. I do not have room in my bathroom for a second box, and I
really would prefer not to have a litter box in my bedroom, living room,
etc. Besides, I am so careful about scooping the box out daily that it
shouldn't be a problem.

I guess my first question is whether anyone else here has dealt with a
similar problem. What do you attribute this behavior to? How did anyone
else deal with it, short of getting rid of the cat? Is the vet's advice
sound? Is a second permanent box the only solution?

My other question relates to automatic electric litter boxes that self
clean
after each use. I'm thinking that this could be the solution, assuming
the
cat's main objection is that she doesn't want to use a box that has
another
cat's waste in it. I have a coworker who has two cats and one of these
machines, and swears by it. In some ways, purchasing one of these is
capitulating anyway, since the models I have seen would not fit well in my
bathroom currently, so I would need to find a place for it in another part
of the apartment anyway, but at least I would still have one box to deal
with and not two, and there clearly would be less maintenance for me once
it
was set up. Of course, they also are relatively expensive, although as a
one-time cost I'm not that concerned, IF it solves the problem, since both
cats are likely to live several more years and I would prefer to keep them
both for their natural lifespans.

So, the next question is do you think this investment is likely to be a
successful way to deal with the problem?

Finally, I would like some advice and feedback on any of the models of
automatic litter boxes. I went to the local Petsmart today and looked at
all the models. They all do basically the same thing, but differ
significantly in price, size, and appearance. They probably have
different
ongoing overhead costs in terms of replacing liners, other parts, and the
like. I'm also curious just how well they function. It's easy to scoop
out
one solid clump of urine, but sometimes they urinate on the bottom of the
box rather than directly into litter, therefore the urine basically
spreads
out over the bottom. The litter still absorbs the urine once the cats
bury
their handiwork but now instead of being a round discrete clump, it is
more
of widely dispersed wet clay that sometimes takes time to scrape off the
bottom in order to get it all out of the box. How would an electric box,
with it's automatic "rake" deal with this situation? I just imagine that
the blades of the rake would sift through and slice up the urine soaked
clay, but not necessarily pick it all up and deposit it in the bin.

What I'm looking for here is any product feedback you all can give me.
Who
has experience with the following models? How satisfied are you with it?
What are the best/worst features of that particular machine? What are the
approximate ongoing costs for the parts you need to replace periodically?
Is it worth it?

Littermaid $100 (also available in a Mega size for $160, but doesn't look
that much larger, so I'm not sure if paying the extra $60 could possibly
be
worth it; after all the whole point is that each time the cat enters it,
they are entering a newly cleaned box, so what's the point of the larger
size?) This is the one my coworker has (standard size) and he says it
works
great for his two cats.

Littersweep Ultra (Stylette) $80

Purrforma Plus XL (Petmate) $200 (it should provide bidet service for the
cats for $200, Jeez!)

Scoopfree $140 (Apparently from the makers of Freshstep Litter, they sell
special replacement trays pre-filled with Freshstep, could be expensive to
maintain)

I'm sorry that my first post to these groups is so long, but I did want to
be thorough in my explanations and needs.

TIA

Shy Guy

You do need two litter boxes. I am horrified to think that you may place her
in a shelter because you will not provide them with another box. You fail
miserably as a pet owner.
Gail


"Shy Guy" wrote in message
...
I have a two related questions to pose to the group.

The first relates to an older cat who is having problems using the litter
box on occasion.

Background: I have two cats. The female since she was a kitten. One
year
after that, I decided to get her a companion, a male I found at an animal
shelter. His age was not definite, but the shelter owners claimed he was
2,
this is probably accurate within a year or so, so both cats are close in
age. Both cats were neutered before they were ever placed together. The
female took some time to adjust to the new presence but with a lot of
patience on our parts, she finally got used to him over a period of a
couple
of weeks. She has remained the more aggressive and territorial of the two
throughout their relationship, while he has always been gentler, calmer,
and
submissive since the day he came to live with us (indeed, their response
to
their owners has always been the same as well: she is possessive of her
owner and jealous when he gets the attention; she likes affection but is
aggressive in her interaction and play; he has always been an absolute
sweetheart from day one).

Anyway, the female is now 12 years old, and he is somewhere in the 12-14
range, so they have been together for many years. Occasionally, in years
past, I would discover large hidden collections of feces in out of the way
places, for example behind the television set, and in the back corner of
the
closet. Based on the amount of droppings, it clearly had been occurring
for
a long period of time when I finally cleaned there and discovered it. In
certain areas of the apartment, I would sometimes walk around and get a
waft
of urine smell, although I never found a wet spot or stain anywhere. It
became clear that the female was not using the litter box regularly. Most
of the time she does, but periodically does not. The male has never had
this problem. Except on very rare occasions, I scoop out the contents of
the litter box daily, and replace the litter when it gets rather low.
Admittedly, I do not wash and completely replace the litter in the box
very
often.

Perhaps 3 or 4 years ago, things took a disturbing turn. I finally found
a
wet spot. It was on my bed right where I sleep, near my pillow. She had
urinated on the bed. Since that night, she periodically defecates and
urinates in the exact same spot, rather than use the litter box in those
instances. I have now slept on a vinyl-lined mattress cover in order to
protect my king-size mattress from damage for the past few years. In
addition, I use an old rain poncho as a dropcloth that protects that
quarter
of the bed and bedspread which I must lay out without fail every single
morning or panic that my blanket and sheets might be ruined before I get
back home. She clearly likes that spot, as her behavior has continued for
these past few years and always hits the rain poncho squarely. At least
this has spared my bed and linens any further damage. Still, I find the
situation maddening. Feces is easy enough to deal with, but urine is a
mess, even when I only have to scrub a rain poncho. Last night, I readied
for bed, exhausted, but discovered I could not retire until I took care of
a
warm malodorous puddle on my rain poncho. I decided last night that no
matter how attached I may be to the animal, if a definitive solution to
the
behavior cannot be discovered, the cat will be moving to a shelter. It is
simply not worth the aggravation anymore. Any attempts to discipline her
or
train her not to do this and retrain her to use her litter box have been
unsuccessful. After all, she does use the litter box 90-95% of the time,
so
she knows where it is and prefers to use it. Her decision not to, and
even
moreso, her decision to use my bed as her single alternative, is clearly
just that, a decision, with a definite agenda.

When the problem first moved to the bed, a few years ago, I asked the vet
about the problem. She told me to get a second litter box. A multiple
cat
household should always have multiple litter boxes, said she.
Occasionally,
I put out a second box when I have to leave town for a few days and they
are
to be left alone, and generally she does not use the bed if the other
litter
box is out, even when neither is cleaned for a few days, so at face value,
this could solve the problem. However, I do not want to care for two
boxes
permanently. I do not have room in my bathroom for a second box, and I
really would prefer not to have a litter box in my bedroom, living room,
etc. Besides, I am so careful about scooping the box out daily that it
shouldn't be a problem.

I guess my first question is whether anyone else here has dealt with a
similar problem. What do you attribute this behavior to? How did anyone
else deal with it, short of getting rid of the cat? Is the vet's advice
sound? Is a second permanent box the only solution?

My other question relates to automatic electric litter boxes that self
clean
after each use. I'm thinking that this could be the solution, assuming
the
cat's main objection is that she doesn't want to use a box that has
another
cat's waste in it. I have a coworker who has two cats and one of these
machines, and swears by it. In some ways, purchasing one of these is
capitulating anyway, since the models I have seen would not fit well in my
bathroom currently, so I would need to find a place for it in another part
of the apartment anyway, but at least I would still have one box to deal
with and not two, and there clearly would be less maintenance for me once
it
was set up. Of course, they also are relatively expensive, although as a
one-time cost I'm not that concerned, IF it solves the problem, since both
cats are likely to live several more years and I would prefer to keep them
both for their natural lifespans.

So, the next question is do you think this investment is likely to be a
successful way to deal with the problem?

Finally, I would like some advice and feedback on any of the models of
automatic litter boxes. I went to the local Petsmart today and looked at
all the models. They all do basically the same thing, but differ
significantly in price, size, and appearance. They probably have
different
ongoing overhead costs in terms of replacing liners, other parts, and the
like. I'm also curious just how well they function. It's easy to scoop
out
one solid clump of urine, but sometimes they urinate on the bottom of the
box rather than directly into litter, therefore the urine basically
spreads
out over the bottom. The litter still absorbs the urine once the cats
bury
their handiwork but now instead of being a round discrete clump, it is
more
of widely dispersed wet clay that sometimes takes time to scrape off the
bottom in order to get it all out of the box. How would an electric box,
with it's automatic "rake" deal with this situation? I just imagine that
the blades of the rake would sift through and slice up the urine soaked
clay, but not necessarily pick it all up and deposit it in the bin.

What I'm looking for here is any product feedback you all can give me.
Who
has experience with the following models? How satisfied are you with it?
What are the best/worst features of that particular machine? What are the
approximate ongoing costs for the parts you need to replace periodically?
Is it worth it?

Littermaid $100 (also available in a Mega size for $160, but doesn't look
that much larger, so I'm not sure if paying the extra $60 could possibly
be
worth it; after all the whole point is that each time the cat enters it,
they are entering a newly cleaned box, so what's the point of the larger
size?) This is the one my coworker has (standard size) and he says it
works
great for his two cats.

Littersweep Ultra (Stylette) $80

Purrforma Plus XL (Petmate) $200 (it should provide bidet service for the
cats for $200, Jeez!)

Scoopfree $140 (Apparently from the makers of Freshstep Litter, they sell
special replacement trays pre-filled with Freshstep, could be expensive to
maintain)

I'm sorry that my first post to these groups is so long, but I did want to
be thorough in my explanations and needs.

TIA

Shy Guy

Did you every fully clean the area that she was using If you say yes you
are either lying or don't know how to do the cleaning.
Good lord talk about selfish your own vet gave you advice that you know
works and you are ignoring it because of laziness. I have 5 cats no litter
maid there are 8 boxes through out the house and you don't smell the boxes
at all and that comes from non cat owners.

Please take your animals to a no kill shelter and let them be saved them
from your selfish lazy ignoranance.

Did you every think that it might be something that you or the others that
area living in the house are causing the female to do since the male has not
done it yet.

"Any attempts to discipline her or train her not to do this and retrain her
to use her litter box have been
unsuccessful."
Did you every get professional advice and if you did? did you follow it? We
don't know you but can answer that one for you

"---MIKE---" wrote in message
...
Your vet is correct except you need THREE litter boxes. I can't believe
you would consider getting rid of the cat rather than get another litter
box. Be prepared for a lot of flames about that.

Mike this is shy guy has the makings of a troll

NMR wrote:

Mike this is shy guy has the makings of a troll

Yes, Im sure he's a troll

QUICK EVERYBODY KILLFILE HIM
KILLFILE
KILLFILE
KILLFILE

DANGER DANGER
TROLL ON A ROLL

On Tue, 24 Jan 2006 06:47:57 GMT, "Shy Guy"
wrote:

I have a two related questions to pose to the group.

Can't you close the bedroom door and keep the cat off the bed?

Charlie

"NMR" wrote in message
oups.com...

Barry that is not funny posting with my Display name

"NMR" wrote in message
oups.com...

NMR wrote:

Mike this is shy guy has the makings of a troll

Yes, Im sure he's a troll

QUICK EVERYBODY KILLFILE HIM
KILLFILE
KILLFILE
KILLFILE

DANGER DANGER
TROLL ON A ROLL


hee!