Phil or anyone CRF questions. Long

Hi,

It has been a few years since I have been here. I have came to ask a
few questions.. I remember Phil being so wonderful with helping people
understand blood work results..

Ok a bit about my situation.. This is going to be long.. Sorry
everyone.

I have had Mischue for 6 years his blood work from almost 2 years ago
was normal.

I couldn't get his blood work done at his last health check so don't
know about that..

Ok a week ago Mischue started not coming out for breakfast.. Not
unusual for him especialy if he is about ready to hack up a hairball..
So I didn't worry at first.. Then he stopped coming out for dinner.. I
started to worry. So I take him to my vet the next day.. He was
dehydrated and his BUN was 85 not good I know, his liver enzymes were
slightly elevated.. So they did subq fluids and told me to bring him in
two days. I take him in and he is still showing signs of being
dehydrated more subqs.

The vet then told me to force feed him.. I start doing that not very
well he didn't tell me how much and Mischue spit out most of it. That
if he wasn't better by Tuesday he would show me how to do subq fluids
at home.

Saturday night rolls around he is worse off throwing up anythign I gave
him.. So I call my vets office and they said to take him to the ER.. I
found a place that was going to be open at 8:00 Am on Sunday the 28th.
So I take him there when they first opened.

They did blood work and his numbers where through the roof.. I will
attach a link to blood work at the bottom. The vet there tells me it is
CRF. Shows me how to do subq fluids, Hill's K/D, Nutri-Cal and gave me
clavamox.. His mouth is full of ulcers at this point but they were not
there on Friday. The vet wanted to do dialysis but wanted $579 a day
which they wanted to keep him 3-7 days.. I am sorry but that is out of
my price range.. :-( I asked the vet about putting Mischue down.. The
vet tells me No you have to give him a chance.

I take Mischue home and read anything and everything I can get my hands
on about CRF.

Sunday night he kept getting worse.. he had a total of 400 ML of subq
fluids his mouth started to bleed from the ulcers. I call the vets on
call number at around 11:00 PM and they say it is normal for them to
bleed. Ok then he stops walking at around 6:00 AM Monday the 29th I
call agian they tell me that it is from the high PHOS that the subq
should start lowering it... I call back at close to 8:00 AM wanting to
know why Binders for the PHOS, something to help him stop thowing up
and feeding tubes were not discussed with me.. They said they would
have the vet give me a call..

Two hours later the vet calls back.. I tell him everything that I had
read about how Mischue needs binders what about the other things.. He
tells me that Binders only works for the food that he is eating right
then not what is already in his blood stream. He tells me if he needs
a feeding tube that he will put one in on Tuesday.. I told him that
Mischue was having a very hard time swallowing and he said that it was
due to ulcers down his throat. GREAT!!! NOT!! That Mischue was to the
point that he couldn't walk and at that point even hold his head up..
He tells me to just keep up with the program 150 ML of sub q fluids
twice a day..

I keep this up till around 10:00 PM then it dawned on me I was putting
all these fluids in and nothing had came out in 2 days.. I got online
and asked on the CRF group if he should be peeing.. They all say yes..
10:30 PM I call the vets office and await a call from the vet..

11:15 my baby passed in my arms before the vet even calls..

I have talked to one other person that knows a lot about kitties and
she says that CRF is not a quick killer that some of his blood work did
not match up for CRF that she thinks he had a stones either kidney or
crystals and his pee was backing up and causing toxic levels..

So my question is can FLTD or Kidney stones cause some results like
CRF? Or can CRF kill that quick?

I am sorry I cannot get this out of my head that if it was stones that
he could have been saved. That my baby boy would still be here with
me.. That I stayed up for 72 hours for nothing trying to save him and
that the vets office didn't care..

There are pictures of him at the bottom of the web page some are
graphic.

http://hometown.aol.com/amberlove0/page2.html

Sorry should have added my vet said CRF and gave Hill's K/D also and at
the last visit when his BUN was 85 that I should think about putting
him down. He was only telling me this due to me doing rescue knowing
that I have others to take care of and the bills that Mischue might
have.. I told him no Mischue is my baby, I wanted to save him.. That
ended that.

When Mischue went into see the ER vet his temp was 95.8. Even thoug
he was on a heating pad on low it only got up to 97.3... I know normal
is 100-101 right around there.

AmberLove0@aol.(nospam)com wrote:
Hi,

It has been a few years since I have been here. I have came to ask a
few questions.. I remember Phil being so wonderful with helping people
understand blood work results..

Ok a bit about my situation.. This is going to be long.. Sorry
everyone.

I have had Mischue for 6 years his blood work from almost 2 years ago
was normal.

I couldn't get his blood work done at his last health check so don't
know about that..

Ok a week ago Mischue started not coming out for breakfast.. Not
unusual for him especialy if he is about ready to hack up a hairball..
So I didn't worry at first.. Then he stopped coming out for dinner.. I
started to worry. So I take him to my vet the next day.. He was
dehydrated and his BUN was 85 not good I know, his liver enzymes were
slightly elevated.. So they did subq fluids and told me to bring him in
two days. I take him in and he is still showing signs of being
dehydrated more subqs.

The vet then told me to force feed him.. I start doing that not very
well he didn't tell me how much and Mischue spit out most of it. That
if he wasn't better by Tuesday he would show me how to do subq fluids
at home.

Saturday night rolls around he is worse off throwing up anythign I gave
him.. So I call my vets office and they said to take him to the ER.. I
found a place that was going to be open at 8:00 Am on Sunday the 28th.
So I take him there when they first opened.

They did blood work and his numbers where through the roof.. I will
attach a link to blood work at the bottom. The vet there tells me it is
CRF. Shows me how to do subq fluids, Hill's K/D, Nutri-Cal and gave me
clavamox.. His mouth is full of ulcers at this point but they were not
there on Friday. The vet wanted to do dialysis but wanted $579 a day
which they wanted to keep him 3-7 days.. I am sorry but that is out of
my price range.. :-( I asked the vet about putting Mischue down.. The
vet tells me No you have to give him a chance.

I take Mischue home and read anything and everything I can get my hands
on about CRF.

Sunday night he kept getting worse.. he had a total of 400 ML of subq
fluids his mouth started to bleed from the ulcers. I call the vets on
call number at around 11:00 PM and they say it is normal for them to
bleed. Ok then he stops walking at around 6:00 AM Monday the 29th I
call agian they tell me that it is from the high PHOS that the subq
should start lowering it... I call back at close to 8:00 AM wanting to
know why Binders for the PHOS, something to help him stop thowing up
and feeding tubes were not discussed with me.. They said they would
have the vet give me a call..

Two hours later the vet calls back.. I tell him everything that I had
read about how Mischue needs binders what about the other things.. He
tells me that Binders only works for the food that he is eating right
then not what is already in his blood stream. He tells me if he needs
a feeding tube that he will put one in on Tuesday.. I told him that
Mischue was having a very hard time swallowing and he said that it was
due to ulcers down his throat. GREAT!!! NOT!! That Mischue was to the
point that he couldn't walk and at that point even hold his head up..
He tells me to just keep up with the program 150 ML of sub q fluids
twice a day..

I keep this up till around 10:00 PM then it dawned on me I was putting
all these fluids in and nothing had came out in 2 days.. I got online
and asked on the CRF group if he should be peeing.. They all say yes..
10:30 PM I call the vets office and await a call from the vet..

11:15 my baby passed in my arms before the vet even calls..

I have talked to one other person that knows a lot about kitties and
she says that CRF is not a quick killer that some of his blood work did
not match up for CRF that she thinks he had a stones either kidney or
crystals and his pee was backing up and causing toxic levels..

So my question is can FLTD or Kidney stones cause some results like
CRF? Or can CRF kill that quick?

I am sorry I cannot get this out of my head that if it was stones that
he could have been saved. That my baby boy would still be here with
me.. That I stayed up for 72 hours for nothing trying to save him and
that the vets office didn't care..

There are pictures of him at the bottom of the web page some are
graphic.

http://hometown.aol.com/amberlove0/page2.html

He was a beautiful kitty. I am so sorry to hear about your loss and
what you went through. I don't have any words of wisdom on this. I
just wanted to let you know that it sounds like you did everything you
could do. That is just terrible that a young kitty like that had so
lose its life. I don't understand how so many vets can be so wrong
all the time.


AmberLove0@aol.(nospam)com wrote:
Sorry should have added my vet said CRF and gave Hill's K/D also and at
the last visit when his BUN was 85 that I should think about putting
him down. He was only telling me this due to me doing rescue knowing
that I have others to take care of and the bills that Mischue might
have.. I told him no Mischue is my baby, I wanted to save him.. That
ended that.

When Mischue went into see the ER vet his temp was 95.8. Even thoug
he was on a heating pad on low it only got up to 97.3... I know normal
is 100-101 right around there.

AmberLove0@aol.(nospam)com wrote:
Hi,

It has been a few years since I have been here. I have came to ask a
few questions.. I remember Phil being so wonderful with helping people
understand blood work results..

Ok a bit about my situation.. This is going to be long.. Sorry
everyone.

I have had Mischue for 6 years his blood work from almost 2 years ago
was normal.

I couldn't get his blood work done at his last health check so don't
know about that..

Ok a week ago Mischue started not coming out for breakfast.. Not
unusual for him especialy if he is about ready to hack up a hairball..
So I didn't worry at first.. Then he stopped coming out for dinner.. I
started to worry. So I take him to my vet the next day.. He was
dehydrated and his BUN was 85 not good I know, his liver enzymes were
slightly elevated.. So they did subq fluids and told me to bring him in
two days. I take him in and he is still showing signs of being
dehydrated more subqs.

The vet then told me to force feed him.. I start doing that not very
well he didn't tell me how much and Mischue spit out most of it. That
if he wasn't better by Tuesday he would show me how to do subq fluids
at home.

Saturday night rolls around he is worse off throwing up anythign I gave
him.. So I call my vets office and they said to take him to the ER.. I
found a place that was going to be open at 8:00 Am on Sunday the 28th.
So I take him there when they first opened.

They did blood work and his numbers where through the roof.. I will
attach a link to blood work at the bottom. The vet there tells me it is
CRF. Shows me how to do subq fluids, Hill's K/D, Nutri-Cal and gave me
clavamox.. His mouth is full of ulcers at this point but they were not
there on Friday. The vet wanted to do dialysis but wanted $579 a day
which they wanted to keep him 3-7 days.. I am sorry but that is out of
my price range.. :-( I asked the vet about putting Mischue down.. The
vet tells me No you have to give him a chance.

I take Mischue home and read anything and everything I can get my hands
on about CRF.

Sunday night he kept getting worse.. he had a total of 400 ML of subq
fluids his mouth started to bleed from the ulcers. I call the vets on
call number at around 11:00 PM and they say it is normal for them to
bleed. Ok then he stops walking at around 6:00 AM Monday the 29th I
call agian they tell me that it is from the high PHOS that the subq
should start lowering it... I call back at close to 8:00 AM wanting to
know why Binders for the PHOS, something to help him stop thowing up
and feeding tubes were not discussed with me.. They said they would
have the vet give me a call..

Two hours later the vet calls back.. I tell him everything that I had
read about how Mischue needs binders what about the other things.. He
tells me that Binders only works for the food that he is eating right
then not what is already in his blood stream. He tells me if he needs
a feeding tube that he will put one in on Tuesday.. I told him that
Mischue was having a very hard time swallowing and he said that it was
due to ulcers down his throat. GREAT!!! NOT!! That Mischue was to the
point that he couldn't walk and at that point even hold his head up..
He tells me to just keep up with the program 150 ML of sub q fluids
twice a day..

I keep this up till around 10:00 PM then it dawned on me I was putting
all these fluids in and nothing had came out in 2 days.. I got online
and asked on the CRF group if he should be peeing.. They all say yes..
10:30 PM I call the vets office and await a call from the vet..

11:15 my baby passed in my arms before the vet even calls..

I have talked to one other person that knows a lot about kitties and
she says that CRF is not a quick killer that some of his blood work did
not match up for CRF that she thinks he had a stones either kidney or
crystals and his pee was backing up and causing toxic levels..

So my question is can FLTD or Kidney stones cause some results like
CRF? Or can CRF kill that quick?

I am sorry I cannot get this out of my head that if it was stones that
he could have been saved. That my baby boy would still be here with
me.. That I stayed up for 72 hours for nothing trying to save him and
that the vets office didn't care..

There are pictures of him at the bottom of the web page some are
graphic.

http://hometown.aol.com/amberlove0/page2.html

"AmberLove0@aol.(nospam)com" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

It has been a few years since I have been here. I have came to ask a
few questions.. I remember Phil being so wonderful with helping people
understand blood work results..

Ok a bit about my situation.. This is going to be long.. Sorry
everyone.

I have had Mischue for 6 years his blood work from almost 2 years ago
was normal.

I couldn't get his blood work done at his last health check so don't
know about that..

Ok a week ago Mischue started not coming out for breakfast.. Not
unusual for him especialy if he is about ready to hack up a hairball..
So I didn't worry at first.. Then he stopped coming out for dinner.. I
started to worry. So I take him to my vet the next day.. He was
dehydrated and his BUN was 85 not good I know, his liver enzymes were
slightly elevated.. So they did subq fluids and told me to bring him in
two days. I take him in and he is still showing signs of being
dehydrated more subqs.

The vet then told me to force feed him.. I start doing that not very
well he didn't tell me how much and Mischue spit out most of it. That
if he wasn't better by Tuesday he would show me how to do subq fluids
at home.

Saturday night rolls around he is worse off throwing up anythign I gave
him.. So I call my vets office and they said to take him to the ER.. I
found a place that was going to be open at 8:00 Am on Sunday the 28th.
So I take him there when they first opened.

They did blood work and his numbers where through the roof.. I will
attach a link to blood work at the bottom. The vet there tells me it is
CRF. Shows me how to do subq fluids, Hill's K/D, Nutri-Cal and gave me
clavamox.. His mouth is full of ulcers at this point but they were not
there on Friday. The vet wanted to do dialysis but wanted $579 a day
which they wanted to keep him 3-7 days.. I am sorry but that is out of
my price range.. :-( I asked the vet about putting Mischue down.. The
vet tells me No you have to give him a chance.

I take Mischue home and read anything and everything I can get my hands
on about CRF.

Sunday night he kept getting worse.. he had a total of 400 ML of subq
fluids his mouth started to bleed from the ulcers. I call the vets on
call number at around 11:00 PM and they say it is normal for them to
bleed. Ok then he stops walking at around 6:00 AM Monday the 29th I
call agian they tell me that it is from the high PHOS that the subq
should start lowering it... I call back at close to 8:00 AM wanting to
know why Binders for the PHOS, something to help him stop thowing up
and feeding tubes were not discussed with me.. They said they would
have the vet give me a call..

Two hours later the vet calls back.. I tell him everything that I had
read about how Mischue needs binders what about the other things.. He
tells me that Binders only works for the food that he is eating right
then not what is already in his blood stream. He tells me if he needs
a feeding tube that he will put one in on Tuesday.. I told him that
Mischue was having a very hard time swallowing and he said that it was
due to ulcers down his throat. GREAT!!! NOT!! That Mischue was to the
point that he couldn't walk and at that point even hold his head up..
He tells me to just keep up with the program 150 ML of sub q fluids
twice a day..

I keep this up till around 10:00 PM then it dawned on me I was putting
all these fluids in and nothing had came out in 2 days.. I got online
and asked on the CRF group if he should be peeing.. They all say yes..
10:30 PM I call the vets office and await a call from the vet..

11:15 my baby passed in my arms before the vet even calls..

I have talked to one other person that knows a lot about kitties and
she says that CRF is not a quick killer that some of his blood work did
not match up for CRF that she thinks he had a stones either kidney or
crystals and his pee was backing up and causing toxic levels..

So my question is can FLTD or Kidney stones cause some results like
CRF? Or can CRF kill that quick?


I'm very sorry about Mischue.

A urinary tract obstruction produces a pathophysiologic state equivalent to
oliguric acute renal failure
and death if its not relieved in 24-36 hours max.

Your vet should have examined Mischue for a urinary tract obstruction and if
none were found, he should have tried to stimulate urination via diuretics.
Oliguria can also cause severe, life-threatening hyperkalemia which must be
addressed immediately.



I am sorry I cannot get this out of my head that if it was stones that
he could have been saved. That my baby boy would still be here with
me.. That I stayed up for 72 hours for nothing trying to save him and
that the vets office didn't care..

Your situation disturbed (infuriated) me a great deal. Vets, like human
doctors must be held accountable - one way or another- for poor and
incompetent treatment.

I've been very busy and don't have much time to read the group lately, so
please feel free to email me if you like.

My sincere condolences,

Phil





There are pictures of him at the bottom of the web page some are
graphic.

http://hometown.aol.com/amberlove0/page2.html

Buddy thank you so very much sweetie.. It has been so hard on me.. To
think that he was taken from me so quickly. It has broken my heart. I
have lost so many pets in the past year and 3 now in as many months..
One I knew her time was near but it still doesn't make it easier.
Another being a parrot and if you think Kitties can hide being sick it
is nothing compared to a parrot..

Then I lost my dear friend on April 11th and now Mischue.. It is enough
to drive a person crazy.. I have to say it has about done that to me.

__________________________________________

Phil you are so wonderful thank you soooo very much.. I don't know how
many times you have helped me.. I will never be able to thank you
enough..

(((((((((((((((Phil)))))))))))))))))

Amber

Hi Amber -

You're experience is really heartbreaking. I had a kitty named Caesar
that I kept going for about 6 month with subcutaneous hydration until
he was just too sick. Caesar was a blue-point Siamese and had
something congenital where his kidneys were malformed so he was on
borrowed time from the getgo.

He was used to drinking filtered water (reverse osmosis) during his 6
years. It didn't dawn on me at the time but when the water filter
system went out of order, again, without thinking, I started giving
the cats tap water. To a cat that's used to pure water, suddenly the
city water must have smelled and tasted chlorinated. Anyway, his
instinct caused him to stop drinking as much water as before. In
hindsight, the tap water must have tasted like poison to Caesar.
Already with weakened kidneys, his lack of good hydration was the
"straw that broke the camel's back." Stupid me didn't even associate
the events 'til it was too late.

Amber, there's nothing we can do about our kitties now except feel
relieved that they are at peace in a better place. ITMT, your recent
event brought all the memories back. The least I can do in honor of
both yours and my cat is to warn people about how sensitive cats are
to changes in water and how this can easily happen. Cat's aren't like
dogs, not particular about what they eat or drink. Most cat's weakness
is their kidneys and most diets are toxic (nitrogen, magnesium etc.)
to a cat's kidneys if they aren't flushing them out with copious
amounts of water. If your kitty likes to drink water, feel blessed.
Some don't and those are the ones that worry me most.

Again, I'm really sorry about your Mischue. You were there and did
everything that could be done. The main thing is that kitty went
peacefully safe in your arms.

--
- LarryW



"AmberLove0@aol.(nospam)com" wrote in message
oups.com...
Hi,

It has been a few years since I have been here. I have came to ask a
few questions.. I remember Phil being so wonderful with helping
people
understand blood work results..

Ok a bit about my situation.. This is going to be long.. Sorry
everyone.

I have had Mischue for 6 years his blood work from almost 2 years
ago
was normal.

I couldn't get his blood work done at his last health check so don't
know about that..

Ok a week ago Mischue started not coming out for breakfast.. Not
unusual for him especialy if he is about ready to hack up a
hairball..
So I didn't worry at first.. Then he stopped coming out for dinner..
I
started to worry. So I take him to my vet the next day.. He was
dehydrated and his BUN was 85 not good I know, his liver enzymes
were
slightly elevated.. So they did subq fluids and told me to bring him
in
two days. I take him in and he is still showing signs of being
dehydrated more subqs.

The vet then told me to force feed him.. I start doing that not very
well he didn't tell me how much and Mischue spit out most of it.
That
if he wasn't better by Tuesday he would show me how to do subq
fluids
at home.

Saturday night rolls around he is worse off throwing up anythign I
gave
him.. So I call my vets office and they said to take him to the ER..
I
found a place that was going to be open at 8:00 Am on Sunday the
28th.
So I take him there when they first opened.

They did blood work and his numbers where through the roof.. I will
attach a link to blood work at the bottom. The vet there tells me it
is
CRF. Shows me how to do subq fluids, Hill's K/D, Nutri-Cal and gave
me
clavamox.. His mouth is full of ulcers at this point but they were
not
there on Friday. The vet wanted to do dialysis but wanted $579 a day
which they wanted to keep him 3-7 days.. I am sorry but that is out
of
my price range.. :-( I asked the vet about putting Mischue down..
The
vet tells me No you have to give him a chance.

I take Mischue home and read anything and everything I can get my
hands
on about CRF.

Sunday night he kept getting worse.. he had a total of 400 ML of
subq
fluids his mouth started to bleed from the ulcers. I call the vets
on
call number at around 11:00 PM and they say it is normal for them to
bleed. Ok then he stops walking at around 6:00 AM Monday the 29th I
call agian they tell me that it is from the high PHOS that the subq
should start lowering it... I call back at close to 8:00 AM wanting
to
know why Binders for the PHOS, something to help him stop thowing up
and feeding tubes were not discussed with me.. They said they would
have the vet give me a call..

Two hours later the vet calls back.. I tell him everything that I
had
read about how Mischue needs binders what about the other things..
He
tells me that Binders only works for the food that he is eating
right
then not what is already in his blood stream. He tells me if he
needs
a feeding tube that he will put one in on Tuesday.. I told him that
Mischue was having a very hard time swallowing and he said that it
was
due to ulcers down his throat. GREAT!!! NOT!! That Mischue was to
the
point that he couldn't walk and at that point even hold his head
up..
He tells me to just keep up with the program 150 ML of sub q fluids
twice a day..

I keep this up till around 10:00 PM then it dawned on me I was
putting
all these fluids in and nothing had came out in 2 days.. I got
online
and asked on the CRF group if he should be peeing.. They all say
yes..
10:30 PM I call the vets office and await a call from the vet..

11:15 my baby passed in my arms before the vet even calls..

I have talked to one other person that knows a lot about kitties and
she says that CRF is not a quick killer that some of his blood work
did
not match up for CRF that she thinks he had a stones either kidney
or
crystals and his pee was backing up and causing toxic levels..

So my question is can FLTD or Kidney stones cause some results like
CRF? Or can CRF kill that quick?

I am sorry I cannot get this out of my head that if it was stones
that
he could have been saved. That my baby boy would still be here with
me.. That I stayed up for 72 hours for nothing trying to save him
and
that the vets office didn't care..

There are pictures of him at the bottom of the web page some are
graphic.

http://hometown.aol.com/amberlove0/page2.html