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#11
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
"Upscale" wrote in message [snip] Your unspoken insinuation that any owner is selfish for owning a cat where it isn't allowed to go out is short-sighted and very obviously misguided. No it's not. Cats are outdoor animals. You are the selfish one for keeping them prisoner. Ivor |
#12
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
"Professor" wrote in message news:QaCkg.78$RU4.73@trnddc03 [snip] I encourage you to go to a cat show and tell the breeders they are cruel to keep indoors their cats worth thousands of dollars. You're likely to get your ass kicked. BTW I adopted a cat from a shelter in my youth and I kept him indoors his whole life. When you do find one of your cats run over don't come crying to us. That's another cruelty, breeding cats purely for show. There are thousands upon thousands of unwanted cats in shelters worldwide, people should adopt one of those and not breed yet more. BTW I don't have an ass, horse or any other equine animal, what's that got to do with it..? Even if I did why would anybody want to kick it..? Ivor |
#13
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
"~*Connie*~" wrote in message Cats are naturally outdoor creatures, so yes keeping them indoors permanently is cruel. The area around here is relatively safe, we live in a road with little traffic (no through traffic as it's a dead end) and all our cats for the last 30 years have been perfectly fine. Cats are "naturally" outdoor creatures, sure, I'll give you that. But so were humans. Why aren't you living outside and why are you wearing clothes??? Because I live in the UK and it's bloody freezing..! Cats are naturally desert creatures.. so why are you keeping them in your residential area? Hmm, that's a new one, source of information, please..? I don't doubt you, but I've never heard that one before. Cats are naturally strict carnivores.. so why are you feeding them food loaded down with carbohydrates? How do you know what I'm feeding them..? Look.. Cats adapt perfectly fine to living strictly indoors. I have six cats, and they are VERY happy. Occasionally a door is left open, and most of the time they don't even go outside, and if they do it is simply to satisfy their curiosity, not to 'escape' into their "natural" world.. If I were being "permanently cruel" to them, I wouldn't have the close loving relationship that I have with them - which I am sure is a heck of a lot closer than you have with yours who are often gone. You do not know me, my cats or the relationship I have with them, do not presume. I love my cats far more than any human, I promise you. And just because YOU have had extremely good luck keeping cats that go outside, does NOT mean that every cat should go outside. A cat that lives an indoor/outdoor existence has a life expectancy of 3 to 5 years.. as opposed to the 16-20 for the indoor cat. (and don't tout that your cats lived long lives.. this is the life expectancy, not a absolute. Some cats go out and die the next day) Source of your figures, please..? Are you speaking for the UK or are you one of those people who think the world ceases at US borders..? I know people in city centres who have had outdoor cats for long periods, a friend's cat recently died (of natural causes) at age 19, she had been an outdoor cat her whole life, on a *very* busy road. Ivor |
#14
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
"Professor" wrote in message news:QaCkg.78$RU4.73@trnddc03 "Ivor Jones" wrote in message ... "Professor" wrote in message news:J3ykg.11$d9.8@trndny04 Young cats extremely rarely die suddenly of natural causes. An autopsy would have determined just why, but you were probably too cheap to pay for one. Letting your cats out to be run over in city traffic isn't cruel, but keeping cats inside their whole lives where they are safe is cruel? Fortunately uninformed older people that think like you are dying off. You didn't read what I wrote. Did I say my cat who died outside was young..? In actual fact he was 18+ at the time and used to roam for quite a distance. Incidentally, I probably spend more money at the vet in a month than you do in a year, so don't presume. Cats are naturally outdoor creatures, so yes keeping them indoors permanently is cruel. The area around here is relatively safe, we live in a road with little traffic (no through traffic as it's a dead end) and all our cats for the last 30 years have been perfectly fine. Incidentally, are you in the USA..? It seems to be the US that is becoming so fanatical about keeping cats indoors, all I can say is if you live where you don't think it is ok to let cats out then don't have them. If you genuinely love cats and want to do something positive for them, go and volunteer at a rescue shelter as I do. Ivor I encourage you to go to a cat show and tell the breeders they are cruel to keep indoors their cats worth thousands of dollars. They *are* cruel. These people who breed cats for show hate animals, and lead lives totally devoted to profit and transient, meaningless peer-pressure. They should all be locked up in mental institutions and lobotomized. You're likely to get your ass kicked. There's nothing they hate more than being told they're profiteers and animal haters. However, they're unlikely to kick anyone's ass, as most of them are so fat they can't lift their legs high enough. BTW I adopted a cat from a shelter in my youth and I kept him indoors his whole life. That is DISGUSTING. You should be ashamed of yourself. In fact, I've a good mind to report you to a variety of animal-cruelty and Police authorities, you utter creep. Hang your head in shame, for keeping an animal indoors "his whole life". Appalling. |
#15
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
"~*Connie*~" justified itself in message Cats are naturally outdoor creatures, so yes keeping them indoors permanently is cruel. The area around here is relatively safe, we live in a road with little traffic (no through traffic as it's a dead end) and all our cats for the last 30 years have been perfectly fine. Cats are "naturally" outdoor creatures, sure, I'll give you that. But so were humans. Why aren't you living outside and why are you wearing clothes??? What a ridiculous, whining retort! You could then argue that humans are inherently vicious hunters, and should hunt, kill, and eat cats, because it's the "natural way". Don't be stupid, you useless, cruel cow. Cats are naturally desert creatures.. so why are you keeping them in your residential area? If they're "naturally desert creatures", then why are you keeping them locked-up in your house, you disgusting ****? You should be stopped - by force, if necessary - from keeping cats. Cats are naturally strict carnivores.. so why are you feeding them food loaded down with carbohydrates? And YOU don't?! Don't be a hypocrite, ****head! Look.. Cats adapt perfectly fine to living strictly indoors. No they're not. They're screaming, inside. Stop trying to justify your laziness and cruelty. I have six cats, and they are VERY happy. They're NOT happy. They're miserable, being kept prisoner in such miserable circumstances. You need your head examined, you cruel *******. Occasionally a door is left open, and most of the time they don't even go outside, That's because they're terrified. A state of mind which YOU have created. Be ashamed, bitch. and if they do it is simply to satisfy their curiosity, not to 'escape' into their "natural" world.. Poor things. How they must hate you. If I were being "permanently cruel" to them, I wouldn't have the close loving relationship that I have with them - which I am sure is a heck of a lot closer than you have with yours who are often gone. You wish. Admit it. You're a nasty, horrible person. And cruel. And just because YOU have had extremely good luck keeping cats that go outside, does NOT mean that every cat should go outside. A cat that lives an indoor/outdoor existence has a life expectancy of 3 to 5 years.. as opposed to the 16-20 for the indoor cat. (and don't tout that your cats lived long lives.. this is the life expectancy, not a absolute. Some cats go out and die the next day) While YOUR cats are dying inside, and they take years to do it. Disgusting. as to the OP, I'd recommend switching to a strictly indoor situation as well, but once cats have expanded their territory to include the outside, SOME cats have a very hard time adapting to the smaller territory. In that case, you have to weigh a possibly shorter life span vs quality of life. Jesus. What a terrible thing to say. In fact, it makes you sound insane. And sexually frustrated. There is no devise that Im aware of (and I did research for my own cats - I need to give one of mine access to a room that no one else can get into) and the keyed door is the only option, and they only go one way. What you could do is build a tunnel. Put one keyed door on one side, and another on the other - facing the other way. It's people like you that staff concentration camps. I'm reporting you to all the animal welfare groups I can find. |
#16
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
Ivor Jones wrote: "Upscale" wrote in message [snip] Your unspoken insinuation that any owner is selfish for owning a cat where it isn't allowed to go out is short-sighted and very obviously misguided. No it's not. Cats are outdoor animals. You are the selfish one for keeping them prisoner. Ivor No, Ivor, I do not agree. We adopted 3 cats (2 were facing euthanasia). We keep 2 inside, and they are very happy--are not interested in going into the great outdoors. Anyone who can give a cat a good, loving home, whether indoor or outdoor, is ok in my book. Stop being so judgemental. |
#17
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
Keep this in mind:
Outdoor cats have an average life expectancy of 4 years Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years Having said that: Why not make your current indoor/outdoor cat an indoor cat only and get rid of the cat door completely? I don't think there's currently a door on the market that has "selective animal exiting". |
#18
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
David Chang wrote: Keep this in mind: Outdoor cats have an average life expectancy of 4 years Indoor cats have an average life expectancy of 15 years Having said that: Why not make your current indoor/outdoor cat an indoor cat only and get rid of the cat door completely? I don't think there's currently a door on the market that has "selective animal exiting". While I think, for practical reasons, it is safer and easier to keep a cat indoors, there is a valid argument that from a cat's point of view, this is not a great situation. (FWIW, my cat is an indoor cat. She isnt street smart.) To persuade an indoor/outdoor cat to stay in is hard on the cat. If a cat never knew different, then of course a cat can be happy indoors. Our cat is thoroughly contented as long as there's company. But cats I had years ago who were indoor/outdoor lived very different lives and I personally think of higher quality. They would not have chosen to stay indoors all the time. Its like a person who spends their whole life in one village. Someone who has wandered around the world might consider it limiting, but there are millions of perfectly happy people who do it. DB |
#19
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
"tsr3" wrote in message ups.com [snip] No, Ivor, I do not agree. It's your right to disagree. It's my right to say you're wrong. We adopted 3 cats (2 were facing euthanasia). We keep 2 inside, and they are very happy--are not interested in going into the great outdoors. Anyone who can give a cat a good, loving home, whether indoor or outdoor, is ok in my book. Stop being so judgemental. Better an indoor home than none at all, I agree, but it is still fundamentally wrong in my book and I've had cats for 30+ years and worked at a rescue shelter for 4 so I think I know a little about cats and what's best for them. Not everyone lives in the backwoods of the USA where predators are lurking around every corner. Ivor |
#20
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Indoor kittens and indoors/outdoors cat -- how to manage?
Ivor Jones wrote: Why not just let the new cats out..? It's cruel to restrict cats to an indoor life IMHO, except for exceptional situations such as if the cat is FIV+. Hey, thanks, Ivor, for completely derailling the thread, so instead of answering my question about a cat door, you moved it into a flamefest regarding indoor v. outdoor cats -- which is best? And did the rest of you HAVE to take the bait and keep it going? Aren't there like a bazillion discussions on that topic? And does anyone's mind get changed? NO !! Okay back to my original request: Does anyone know of a door that (perhaps with different key/collars) can be set up so that the cat with the collar can go in/out but the kittens are barred from exiting. Or any other kind of strategy? Please don't suggest making the outdoor cat an indoor one -- that's just not an option. Erik, I appreciated that you were the only to stay on topic, but I already have the kind of door you suggested. I need something a little more sophisticated. Any flaming of me will be ignored -- honestly, I am just looking for some answers, not to get pulled into any kind of debate. Thanks |
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