Schiavo Cats

I think it is wonderful what some pet owners do for their cats.

There is no question these little steadfast creatures quicky and
understandbly become a family member, but where do you draw the line
with health problems as it relates to spending money. A pet owner can
quickly and easily spend 1,000's of dollars on life extending
surgeries, medications, medicals supplies... just where do we draw the
line? Is it worth it?

Do you think the public should be able to purchase health care
insurance on their pets?

For the answer to these and more, stay tuned as our very own Candace
gives us some practical insights on this subject


~~
and now a word from our sponsor Happy Cats Seafood and More
~~

meeeoow, meeeooowww

...... snip greedy cat commercial

And now here's our lovely Candace to give us some practical pointers

Candace...?

Bttngl wrote:
I'm no Candace, but, I hope you will accept my simple thoughts.

angel wrote:
I think it is wonderful what some pet owners do for their cats.

There is no question these little steadfast creatures quicky and
understandbly become a family member, but where do you draw the line
with health problems as it relates to spending money. A pet owner can
quickly and easily spend 1,000's of dollars on life extending
surgeries, medications, medicals supplies... just where do we draw the
line? Is it worth it?

Bttngl replied:
I would say, for my own self, that it is up to the individual. If you
look at the World situation and then see the starving children and all
the disease striking all the humans you would think perhaps that no
money should be allowed to be spent on any animal. That would be one
extremist view. The other would be save the animals and let the people
fend for themselves. I reckon there could be a balance - those who can
should and those who can't shouldn't? How else will both humans and
animals be treated "humanely"? I get kind of ...hmmmm...
******************* (beyond mad) when I see all the huge partying for
all the celebreties everytime one of them passes gas delicately and it
is captured by the Paparatzi and they have a gala affair over the
tordid news - counting new gowns, wine, diamonds, and limos - millions
at minimum are spent for one night on the town - as nothing! Yet, the
same amount would rescue a zillion animals or feed and medicate
Ethyopia and the other countries as such and even our own USA
homeless. Balance.

angel wrote:
Do you think the public should be able to purchase health care
insurance on their pets?

bttngl replies:
I am sure there are all sorts of such insurances available now to those
who can afford such, but how much premium/ how much deductibles/ etc.

Angel wrote:
For the answer to these and more, stay tuned as our very own Candace
gives us some practical insights on this subject


~~
and now a word from our sponsor Happy Cats Seafood and More
~~

meeeoow, meeeooowww

..... snip greedy cat commercial

And now here's our lovely Candace to give us some practical pointers

Candace...?

bttngl replies:
Candace, who? lol

Philosophical questions in the wee hours of the morning!! And I don't think
there's one single right answer. For me, my beasts are my kids. I try to
do as much as I can for them vet-wise. Sometimes it works out
great--expensive but your kitty is back to normal in a short time. I've
also had the experience of spending several thousand hard-earned dollars on
a cat that eventually has to be euthanized. It's a crap shoot. It's hard to
put a price on companionship and it makes for some very difficult choices.
My husband loves the animals, too but resents the expense--which causes some
marital discord from time to time. Sigh!

As far as insurance, yes, I do think insurance should be available. For my
menagerie it's awfully expensive to get insurance for all seven cats and two
dogs, especially since I have several geriatics so I don't have insurance.
I do have a separate bank account that we feed every month and use only for
pet emergencies. For many people I think insurance would be quite a help,
especially if they only had one or two critters.

Enough deep thinking for the morning!
Bonnie

"angel" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think it is wonderful what some pet owners do for their cats.

There is no question these little steadfast creatures quicky and
understandbly become a family member, but where do you draw the line
with health problems as it relates to spending money. A pet owner can
quickly and easily spend 1,000's of dollars on life extending
surgeries, medications, medicals supplies... just where do we draw the
line? Is it worth it?

Do you think the public should be able to purchase health care
insurance on their pets?

For the answer to these and more, stay tuned as our very own Candace
gives us some practical insights on this subject


~~
and now a word from our sponsor Happy Cats Seafood and More
~~

meeeoow, meeeooowww

..... snip greedy cat commercial

And now here's our lovely Candace to give us some practical pointers

Candace...?

angel wrote:
I think it is wonderful what some pet owners do for their cats.

There is no question these little steadfast creatures quicky and
understandbly become a family member, but where do you draw the line
with health problems as it relates to spending money. A pet owner can
quickly and easily spend 1,000's of dollars on life extending
surgeries, medications, medicals supplies... just where do we draw the
line? Is it worth it?


I draw the line when treatment is unlikely to help the animal and if
the animal is suffering, it needs to be euthanized. Financially,
everyone has their limits. I have no idea what mine would be and hope
to never have to cross that bridge.

Do you think the public should be able to purchase health care
insurance on their pets?

Pet insurance for the most part is a waste of money.


For the answer to these and more, stay tuned as our very own Candace
gives us some practical insights on this subject

Candace has left the building.

-L.

angel wrote:

There is no question these little steadfast creatures quicky and
understandbly become a family member, but where do you draw the line
with health problems as it relates to spending money. A pet owner can
quickly and easily spend 1,000's of dollars on life extending
surgeries, medications, medicals supplies... just where do we draw the
line? Is it worth it?

Do you think the public should be able to purchase health care
insurance on their pets?

For the answer to these and more, stay tuned as our very own Candace
gives us some practical insights on this subject


~~
and now a word from our sponsor Happy Cats Seafood and More
~~

meeeoow, meeeooowww

..... snip greedy cat commercial

And now here's our lovely Candace to give us some practical pointers

Candace...?

Awww, I'm either missed or being derided. Probably the latter.

I have no answers. I spent $3600 on a cat that died anyway even though
he didn't have to. If it had kept him alive, I would have no regrets.
My only regret is taking him to the vet I took him to, who murdered him
due to ignorance. But that is a whole other story that has already
been hashed and rehashed.

I think almost everyone has monetary limits, too, and that should not
be ridiculed for not being enough by others who have more. What
everyone *should* have is enough to take them to the vet in case of an
emergency and enough to have them euthanized if they don't have enough
money to get them treated. Of course, they should also have them
initially neutered and vaccinated (which can be done through any number
of low cost organizations just about everywhere). Other than that, I
guess everyone would have their own financial limits. You should be
willing to spend some money on them but, it's true, the world is full
of unwanted animals and it's better to have a home in a low income
household than no home at all...by far...as long as the animal is loved
and fed and will not be allowed to suffer if it gets sick or injured.

Barry, you're not implying that my late cat, Scottie, was a Schiavo
cat, are you? I don't think you are. He wasn't...because he really
wasn't sick, he was murdered, and I didn't allow him to suffer much.
If I had been willing to let him suffer a little longer, I might have
discovered what the vet did to him before he was euthanized and been
able to have it reversed rather than finding out after the fact.

Candace

Candace wrote:

Awww, I'm either missed or being derided. Probably the latter.

I have no answers. I spent $3600 on a cat that died anyway even though
he didn't have to. If it had kept him alive, I would have no regrets.
My only regret is taking him to the vet I took him to, who murdered him
due to ignorance. But that is a whole other story that has already
been hashed and rehashed.

You was missed

I think the only consilation with what the vet did is that he wouldn't
do that to another cat, Scottie left a lot behind in passing.

I think almost everyone has monetary limits, too, and that should not
be ridiculed for not being enough by others who have more. What
everyone *should* have is enough to take them to the vet in case of an
emergency and enough to have them euthanized if they don't have enough
money to get them treated. Of course, they should also have them
initially neutered and vaccinated (which can be done through any number
of low cost organizations just about everywhere). Other than that, I
guess everyone would have their own financial limits. You should be
willing to spend some money on them but, it's true, the world is full
of unwanted animals and it's better to have a home in a low income
household than no home at all...by far...as long as the animal is loved
and fed and will not be allowed to suffer if it gets sick or injured.

Very practical advice Candace, I think that's very reasonable and
responsible.

My personal opinion; it takes a wicked soul to let an animal suffer
needlessly.
And a good soul sees to the needs of his animals.

Barry, you're not implying that my late cat, Scottie, was a Schiavo
cat, are you? I don't think you are. He wasn't...because he really
wasn't sick, he was murdered, and I didn't allow him to suffer much.

only you know the connection Scottie realized at the end, and you was
there.
I still feel the reverbs of Ruprehct, it never goes away, he took a
part of me with him, so odd. Where is Scottie? I'm sure you told it, I
can't remember.

My Aunt had her beautiful tabby creamated, he's on her mantle.

If I had been willing to let him suffer a little longer, I might have
discovered what the vet did to him before he was euthanized and been
able to have it reversed rather than finding out after the fact.

Most people would have simply taken the vets word at face value.

I forsee vet practice becoming more scrutanized proportionate with the
general knowledge of the clientel, forcing accountability.. no longer
will one simply cough up the money, and say.. Thank you I know you
tried.

Vet practice at it's core is demanding a higher education for vets.

Your vet was so honest with you, I think this is what redeemed him in
your eyes, like I said your vet will never forget Scottie, but what a
price.

Candace wrote:

Barry, you're not implying that my late cat, Scottie, was a Schiavo
cat, are you? I don't think you are.

Right, no, I think of you as being practical and grounded; able to make
sense even under duress and pressure. For you with Scottie... the whole
thing happened so fast.

angel wrote:

only you know the connection Scottie realized at the end, and you was
there.
I still feel the reverbs of Ruprehct, it never goes away, he took a
part of me with him, so odd. Where is Scottie? I'm sure you told it, I
can't remember.

My Aunt had her beautiful tabby creamated, he's on her mantle.

He was cremated and I have his ashes in my family room along with those
of my original 2 cats, Emily and Cory. The sad thing is we had another
cat, Miles, who died in 2001 of acute kidney failure and I don't have
her ashes. We were tight on $$ at the time and we had spent a lot on
her treatment over the last few days of her life so, after she was
euthanized, we just had her mass-cremated and didn't get her ashes back
because it was cheaper. At that time only Emily had died (in 99) and I
had never done anything with her ashes. Then in 2004, Cory died and he
was Emily's son and we had enough money to get his ashes (I felt like
he and Emily should be together that way). I decided, though, that it
was silly (for me) and not really of that much comfort to get the ashes
and I never knew what to do with them, and that I wouldn't get it done
for future cats but then, when Scottie died, I just couldn't not do it.
So...of the 4 cats that Tony and I have had together that have died
(Emily and Cory being mine, Miles his, and Scottie ours), only Miles'
ashes are not here...so I feel bad about that even though I know that
it doesn't matter to her...I just wish I had been consistent. I feel
like I slighted her. I don't know what I will do in the future for my
other cats. The ashes of the 3 of them are in the family room under a
chair...I don't feel closer to them having their ashes here and I can't
think of anything to do with them that feels right.

Your vet was so honest with you, I think this is what redeemed him in
your eyes, like I said your vet will never forget Scottie, but what a
price.

He might have been honest but he wasn't honorable in that he didn't
give me a full refund, not even half, not even a third. I don't
forgive him and I hope I don't have to go to him again. The only way I
would is if I had an after hours emergency and didn't want to go to the
emergency animal clinic--it's kinda icky like a county hospital for
humans--he does take night call, but I would be very wary and question
him on everything he did. I have another vet that I went to before all
this but he didn't take night call when I had an emergency with my cat,
Abbey, and this is how I wound up going to this guy anyway. For a
non-emergency, I would probably go back to the original vet and I have
since Scottie died with my cat, Marbles.

The reason I haven't pursued further action against him is because a)
he *did* admit his fault, b) I worry that I might need him for an
emergency someday, and c) my life has been in the dumper since Scottie
died...one crappy thing after another has happened and, with work, and
other stuff, and always having a crisis or mini-crisis, it hasn't been
possible to summon up the energy or time to do it. I know...I oughtta
go on rpca and ask for purrs and purrayers...then everything would be
A-OK.

Thanks for your complimentary nature, Barry.

Candace

-L. wrote:

I wish vets would be honest about these sorts of situations. It's
extremely unlikely that you will gain your pet more than about 3 months
with chemo for intestinal cancer. Instead, the vets will let you throw
thousands at a situation that is better left untreated. It makes me
furious.


This is the reason I drive 45 minutes away to my vet when there are two
within 10 minutes and many more between. My old vets are wonderful. And
I can trust them.

When Jenny was dionosed with a large heart, I was ready to pay my last
dime to get tests done. They assured me that it was more likely a
healthy heart that is just normal sized in an undersized dog. No need
to rush for expensive testing. Just put her on a special diet to
eliminate the extra weight. If she is still coughing in 6 months, bring
her in for a new x-ray (only $45), and if that shows a change, we can
do further testing. That was 9 years ago, and the diet worked. And they
didn't recommend an expensive fancy food that they were selling. He
said to cut back a little on the regular food and add in some green
beans for filler. Cuts the calories and keeps the dog happy. It worked
great.

When my 14 year old blind and half deaf dog had a stroke, I knew it was
the end. She couldn't even hold her head up, and she panicked if I let
go of her. There was no quality of life for a dog who can't see and
can't walk. The vet didn't even try to encourage treatment. He said the
best thing we could do is let her go.

Last year, I did take Maynard to the closer vet. At the time, I didn't
realize how serious it was. His behavior was still normal, but his ears
had turned yellow. I realized it was the end when the vet tech went and
got the vet, and she came in with that look. I did the bloodwork
because there was a slight chance that it could be an infection that
could be treated. But he was almost 19 years old, and the look on the
vet's face told me this is normally the end. But at the same time, they
tried to get me to leave him there and start all these expensive
treatments. It was going to be $500 for the first day, and I could see
in their expressions that they new he was dying. I did the home
injectins to hydrate him, got the blood results, asked advice here, and
after 3 days, knew the right things was to take him to be euthanized. I
went back to my good vets, and they did it for me, privately, in the
car.

I have never had them push for a treatment that would not help. In
fact, I have experienced several times where they sugested I didn't
need more expensive treatment, or it would really only buy me a few
extra days. They did tell me mom to take her dog home and lover her up
for a week or so, and then bring her back. She had cancer, and was not
immediately in danger of dying, but would be getting worse soon. They
said to enjoy her as much as we could and then bring her back when the
signs got worse.

It is hard to find a vet I can trust that well, so my mom and I still
go there even though we haven't lived near there in over 20 years. The
receptionist is always surprised when she sees our address. We've seen
some receptionists and techs come and go, but the two vets have been
there for years, and they've always been great.

wrote:

snip


It is hard to find a vet I can trust that well, so my mom and I still
go there even though we haven't lived near there in over 20 years. The
receptionist is always surprised when she sees our address. We've seen
some receptionists and techs come and go, but the two vets have been
there for years, and they've always been great.

My good vet is an "oldie" too - he's gotta be close to 70. He was so
kind when he diagnosed my dog with her tumor - and made it clear that
the best thing for her was to bring her home and let her live out the
rest of her life. When I asked him how much time she had, he said
"Give her lots of love each day." I think he expected her to have days
or weeks - she lasted 9 months and surprised us all. I wonder what
could have been, if I had stayed with the vet that misdiagnosed her -
would they have tried to talk me into surgery and chemo that wouldn't
have worked? Probably. I am so glad I found my vet when I did.

I understand that many times vet medicine is an art and not a science -
I have seen vets live that frustration with difficult cases. But there
are vets out there that will take you for every penny you are willing
to throw toward treatment - and not blink twice. [*******s!]

-L.