Anyone feed BARF, ie. Raw or try it?

Does any one feed raw??? I am hoping to eventually go to Raw? I've just

got Pitcairn's latest book and will read it tonight. I have his first
version, which he states you can either cook the meat or leave it raw?
Anyone try Raw??? I've had dogs on homemade who lived to be 14 with no
health problems. I had a Shepard who had severe IBS who cleared up on
homemade. Now the food was cooked not raw. There is an all natural pet
food store in the city who carries about 12 different brands of
raw/frozen for feline. I could buy one of these brands, try it, or make
my own and add this product called InstinctsTC, which sounds alot like
something you would do with the WYSONG. Anyways, any help would be
greatly appreciated. Also - is raw ok for cats with Urinary
problems????? Allergies? I guess there is only way to find out!

Hi, I'm trying to as I have allergy related probs with some of my
cats...I've also noticed better condition overall since going raw, and
better growth in kittens as well. However it is VERy hard to find a good
mince....I can only feed human grade foods as most pet grade mince in
australia is based on non-human grade kangaroo meat which carries parasites.
I feed raw not cooked if possible; atm we're on canned because my butcher
was too unreliable so i have to find a new one. Some tips though; feed a
vitamin supplement at all times. Meat can be altered, like most fresh food,
by seasonal conditions, and for ideal long term health, put a powdered
vitamin supplement for dogs/cats in the mix. Be careful with storage; gastro
is very nasty but preventable. Firstly find out from your butcher/supplier
how fresh the meat is; made that day is preferable. Butchers are preferable
to pet food manufacturers, and human grade better than pet grade as more
precautions with hygiene/pests are taken. If possible, freeze raw meat for
three weeks before consumption. It's difficult to do at first but easy once
you get your system up and running. This kills *most* parasites and
bacteria. Please note that there are risks associated with raw feeding, but
proper storage, quality control, adding a vitamin supplement and freezing
will solve most of these problems. Only do this if you are prepared to put
the effort in; most vets discourage raw feeding as it's not just a matter of
whacking a lump of meat on their plate. This is no reason for you not to do
it; the higher protein and more available vitamins and minerals in the meat
have huge health benefits. If you can, use plant and meat derived vitamins
as mineral derived vit/mineral supplements are not absorbed by the body
nearly as well. Also they will want to eat more than they need as it
tastes good....use carrot, water and rolled oats but only small amounts (1-2
Tbps a meal) to fill them up. Adding some vegies is good; carrot inhibits
worms although obviously can't replace wormer and fresh garlic also does the
same, as well as being good for coats, flea repellant, antibiotic and good
for hearts. Never use onion for cats....I also add some extra virgin olive
oil or sesame oil, about a teaspoon per cat, for skin and coat care and to
aid digestion and hairball passing. On the raw food diet we have no allergy
problems and no digestive problems any more!!! yayy!!! Previously I had
spewy runny cats.....apparently a reaction to indigestible carbohydrates.
Hope I haven't bored your ears off~!
Best wishes

"KittiKat" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does any one feed raw??? I am hoping to eventually go to Raw? I've just

got Pitcairn's latest book and will read it tonight. I have his first
version, which he states you can either cook the meat or leave it raw?
Anyone try Raw??? I've had dogs on homemade who lived to be 14 with no
health problems. I had a Shepard who had severe IBS who cleared up on
homemade. Now the food was cooked not raw. There is an all natural pet
food store in the city who carries about 12 different brands of
raw/frozen for feline. I could buy one of these brands, try it, or make
my own and add this product called InstinctsTC, which sounds alot like
something you would do with the WYSONG. Anyways, any help would be
greatly appreciated. Also - is raw ok for cats with Urinary
problems????? Allergies? I guess there is only way to find out!

KittiKat wrote:

Does any one feed raw???

If I may hijack a small corner of this thread --

Does anybody feed (thawed, warmed) frozen mice, such as the kind
you can buy by the bag for reptiles? It seems like it'd be a
no-brainer, especially since they're about $0.50 per adult, half
that for pinkies.

Some of the online shops also sell frozen chicks, guinea pigs, and
the like for similar prices.

And for feeding to a kitten...?

(My current fuzzy thinking for when my next cat and I find each
other is about half-and-half homemade raw and whole small rodents
/ birds / etc. -- small enough for one meal per animal. The
homemade raw for my own convenience and so I can be sure that she
gets enough taurine and other essential nutrients; the whole
critters for her dental and mental health.)

Oh -- and (at the risk of a flame war) I'd especially like to hear
from people who have /bad/ things to say about raw -- but, please,
only from personal experience (second-hand is okay) or published
peer-reviewed literature. I'm not interested in uninformed ``raw
is icky and full of germs'' sorts of posts; I'm confident I can
deal with both ick and germs.

Cheers,

b&

--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''

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Thanks so much for the tips Kangaroo :P now here in Canada that
brought a smile to my face LOL. I'm having enough problems envisioning
raw chicken LOL !!! I am wondering just how *fresh* the frozen
companies Raw food actually is. This actually worries me about buying
from a company as opposed to making it myself - not too sure *what*
kind of meat they are using besides the type of animal. Hopefully the
pet store which carries these products will be able to reassure me .
Nice to hear that your cats are thriving on the diet - I know how time
consuming it is to make homemade diets - when I cooked for my dogs it
would take a couple of hours to make up only a few days of foods - Nice
thing about cats - they don't weigh 80 pounds LOL with big tummies
to fill (well - that's not really 100% true, one cat is severely
overweight).

This brings me to another question. My female, 6, with the stomatitis,
has put on 5 lbs over the last 5 years of being on nothing but ZD for
Feline dry - she only eats 4 Tbs a day. Now she does get into the other
cat's canned Royal Canin (which use to be the old Walthams brand here
in Canada until bought by Royal Canin) but I cannot see how sneaking a
bit here and there could lead to 5 extra pounds. She weighs 6.92 kilo's
which is way to fat! She needs to have her teeth cleaned and I am
scared about putting her under due to the fact that she is so obese.
Hopefully she will lose weight once she is switched over to something
more natural. I've started to do some kitty activity with her - ie
throwing her mice, playing with the lazer light, etc, to get her moving
a bit.

If anyone has any other advice on how to get her to lose 5 pounds (I
know cats need to lose slowly) I'm needing suggestions. Not sure if I
can reduce her food any further, she is only eating 4 tbs a day.....
I've got one cat who is too skinny and one too fat. Just like Laurel
and Hardy....UGHHHHH....

meeee wrote:
Hi, I'm trying to as I have allergy related probs with some of my
cats...I've also noticed better condition overall since going raw, and
better growth in kittens as well. However it is VERy hard to find a good
mince....I can only feed human grade foods as most pet grade mince in
australia is based on non-human grade kangaroo meat which carries parasites.
I feed raw not cooked if possible; atm we're on canned because my butcher
was too unreliable so i have to find a new one. Some tips though; feed a
vitamin supplement at all times. Meat can be altered, like most fresh food,
by seasonal conditions, and for ideal long term health, put a powdered
vitamin supplement for dogs/cats in the mix. Be careful with storage; gastro
is very nasty but preventable. Firstly find out from your butcher/supplier
how fresh the meat is; made that day is preferable. Butchers are preferable
to pet food manufacturers, and human grade better than pet grade as more
precautions with hygiene/pests are taken. If possible, freeze raw meat for
three weeks before consumption. It's difficult to do at first but easy once
you get your system up and running. This kills *most* parasites and
bacteria. Please note that there are risks associated with raw feeding, but
proper storage, quality control, adding a vitamin supplement and freezing
will solve most of these problems. Only do this if you are prepared to put
the effort in; most vets discourage raw feeding as it's not just a matter of
whacking a lump of meat on their plate. This is no reason for you not to do
it; the higher protein and more available vitamins and minerals in the meat
have huge health benefits. If you can, use plant and meat derived vitamins
as mineral derived vit/mineral supplements are not absorbed by the body
nearly as well. Also they will want to eat more than they need as it
tastes good....use carrot, water and rolled oats but only small amounts (1-2
Tbps a meal) to fill them up. Adding some vegies is good; carrot inhibits
worms although obviously can't replace wormer and fresh garlic also does the
same, as well as being good for coats, flea repellant, antibiotic and good
for hearts. Never use onion for cats....I also add some extra virgin olive
oil or sesame oil, about a teaspoon per cat, for skin and coat care and to
aid digestion and hairball passing. On the raw food diet we have no allergy
problems and no digestive problems any more!!! yayy!!! Previously I had
spewy runny cats.....apparently a reaction to indigestible carbohydrates.
Hope I haven't bored your ears off~!
Best wishes

"KittiKat" wrote in message
ups.com...
Does any one feed raw??? I am hoping to eventually go to Raw? I've just

got Pitcairn's latest book and will read it tonight. I have his first
version, which he states you can either cook the meat or leave it raw?
Anyone try Raw??? I've had dogs on homemade who lived to be 14 with no
health problems. I had a Shepard who had severe IBS who cleared up on
homemade. Now the food was cooked not raw. There is an all natural pet
food store in the city who carries about 12 different brands of
raw/frozen for feline. I could buy one of these brands, try it, or make
my own and add this product called InstinctsTC, which sounds alot like
something you would do with the WYSONG. Anyways, any help would be
greatly appreciated. Also - is raw ok for cats with Urinary
problems????? Allergies? I guess there is only way to find out!

Hi Ben,

I think the mice thing is interesting because I too have read that mice
have a cat's complete nutritional needs. There is a website out there
with a picture of what the cat eliminates - gross yes, but it drove
home the point that mice are nutritionally sound - (I will see if I can
find the website and post for your viewing pleasure LOL). I wonder if
there make be a risk of parasite infection with mice? although if
raised in breeding environment, I think this may be eliminated. I seem
to remember something about mice = worms with outdoor cats, but then
again, mice aren't being raised in a controlled environment where this
could be eliminated. Then there is the question if cat would eat a
*dead* mouse not ground up? Interesting to hear if anyone has any
experience with feeding mice....???


Ben Goren wrote:
KittiKat wrote:

Does any one feed raw???

If I may hijack a small corner of this thread --

Does anybody feed (thawed, warmed) frozen mice, such as the kind
you can buy by the bag for reptiles? It seems like it'd be a
no-brainer, especially since they're about $0.50 per adult, half
that for pinkies.

Some of the online shops also sell frozen chicks, guinea pigs, and
the like for similar prices.

And for feeding to a kitten...?

(My current fuzzy thinking for when my next cat and I find each
other is about half-and-half homemade raw and whole small rodents
/ birds / etc. -- small enough for one meal per animal. The
homemade raw for my own convenience and so I can be sure that she
gets enough taurine and other essential nutrients; the whole
critters for her dental and mental health.)

Oh -- and (at the risk of a flame war) I'd especially like to hear
from people who have /bad/ things to say about raw -- but, please,
only from personal experience (second-hand is okay) or published
peer-reviewed literature. I'm not interested in uninformed ``raw
is icky and full of germs'' sorts of posts; I'm confident I can
deal with both ick and germs.

Cheers,

b&

--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

KittiKat wrote:

I cannot see how sneaking a bit here and there could lead to 5
extra pounds.

Excessive carbohydrates often get stored as fat. It's possible to
suffer from /both/ malnutrition /and/ obesity, if the diet is
excessively loaded with carbohydrates. Imagine, as a thought
experiment, if you ate nothing but refined sugar, as much as you
could force yourself to eat. You'd swell up like a balloon, /and/
you'd be horribly malnourished.

(For people and felines both -- but humans actually need
significant amounts of carbohydrates whereas felines need zero, or
close to zero carbohydrates. Atkins is bad for people, not good
but not as bad for cats.)

That's a roundabout way of suggesting that, if I understand raw
feeding correctly (and, remember I have no experience aside from
reading some Web sites), then the raw diet will put some meat on
the skinny cat's bones while slimming down the fatty.

In theory....

Cheers,

b&

P.S. Exercise is an essential part of /any/ healthy diet for /any/
animal. The two are inextricable, really. b&

--
EAC Memographer
BAAWA Knight of Blasphemy
``All but God can prove this sentence true.''

----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Lol I can relate to the tubby issues...my oldest female suffers from middle
aged spread, and I successfully got her to drop some kilos on raw
food...merely by limiting what she ate, and feeding lean meat. I'm
interested in the raw mouse idea; I have seen stuff about it, but couldn't
stomach the idea of finding 'bits' left around. As I have a large clowder,
they tend to grab and run with prizes like chicken necks and there can be
'bits' left behind couches etc. If your house isn't open plan like ours you
could confine them to the kitchen of course, which would solve the problem.
I find it takes me about 10-15 mins max to prepare a meal for them. Normally
they all get a 'snack' of dry kitten (good brand) in the morning, about four
handfuls between 7 cats + 6 or so kittens, and I make enough food to fill
everyone up in the evenings. If I had a food processor it would take me
about 3 mins plus defrosting time. As it is, I grate and mix, that's it.
whack the vitamin powder, vegies etc in and give it to them. Home feeding is
good as you can vary the diet with what they need very easily; if there are
a lot of cats in the house which equals higher disease risk you can put in
immune builders like garlic, if someone's a bit peaky you can add an egg
yolk every third day, and some cheese, if someone needs to lose weight, a
bit more vegies and water and lean meat...and also at shows I have seen the
judges differentiate between cats that have been fed cooked and cats that
eat raw; of course the judge didn't know, he just commented on the
substantial feel and good muscle developement of the cats that I knew had
been raised on high protein raw meat diet. A lot of people I know feed
chicken necks but I don't feel this is sufficient as cats also need the
'offal' they would naturally get in the wild.

I've been feeding a homemade raw diet to my 2 cats for about 6 1/2
years now. My advice would be to read as much as you can, do lots of
research, and also find someone who has lots of experience feeding raw
to mentor you, or join one of the lists. If you wish to contact me via
email, I can give you a referral to one of the better lists. Feeding
raw is not that hard to do, and I feel it's been very beneficial to my
cats. A good site for some general information is www.catinfo.org

PawsForThought wrote:
I've been feeding a homemade raw diet to my 2 cats for about 6 1/2
years now. My advice would be to read as much as you can, do lots of
research, and also find someone who has lots of experience feeding raw
to mentor you, or join one of the lists. If you wish to contact me via
email, I can give you a referral to one of the better lists. Feeding
raw is not that hard to do, and I feel it's been very beneficial to my
cats. A good site for some general information is www.catinfo.org

This site is really, really good. Lots of information there. I also
feed raw, but choose to purchase Nature's Variety raw (premade) diet
(www.naturesvariety.com). It comes in nuggets that I defrost overnight
in the fridge in a baggie. I run the baggie under some warm water to
take the chill off.

One of the best benefits of feeding raw is no stinky litterbox! The
stools are small and have very little odor vs. other foods (garbage
in/garbage out theory).

"Rene S." wrote in message
ups.com...

PawsForThought wrote:
I've been feeding a homemade raw diet to my 2 cats for about 6 1/2
years now. My advice would be to read as much as you can, do lots of
research, and also find someone who has lots of experience feeding raw
to mentor you, or join one of the lists. If you wish to contact me via
email, I can give you a referral to one of the better lists. Feeding
raw is not that hard to do, and I feel it's been very beneficial to my
cats. A good site for some general information is www.catinfo.org

This site is really, really good. Lots of information there. I also
feed raw, but choose to purchase Nature's Variety raw (premade) diet
(www.naturesvariety.com). It comes in nuggets that I defrost overnight
in the fridge in a baggie. I run the baggie under some warm water to
take the chill off.

One of the best benefits of feeding raw is no stinky litterbox! The
stools are small and have very little odor vs. other foods (garbage
in/garbage out theory).


this stuff is great!! i use their vitamin/mineral mixes. and the litterbox
results are good; no more flatulent diarhea brought on by too much
indigestible vegetable matter