Up Date on Sad loss of kittens

Sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you with details and
results of tests, but we had to wait for them, & I've had no PC for a
couple of days either.

After every cats swabs, blood tests, cultures, we had to wait for the
results which were somewhat surprising, & I needed to find out what we
could do for Tiggy, baring in mind that she has had no antenatal care,
& results of the ultrasound tests to tell us what stage we are in her
pregnancy too.

The first shock was to find out that Lucy(fur!) is Fhv positive & the
most probably source of infection because she is also Fcv positive
too;o(

All of the other cats white counts are more or less back to normal &
the cultures told them that the only cat not infected at all, was
Tiggy.

Tiggy is into her 7th week of pregnancy, & the surgery were reluctant
to abort the kitten, if there was any possible way that we could
isolate her.

This has been arranged & Tiggy has already gone to a foster home until
the end of her confinement, & the rearing of her kittens is complete
( this is assuming that all goes well of course!!)

They even took some amniotic fluid to see if they were viable, which
sounded rather strange, but I believe them.
It was hard watching Tiggy go, but I have to do what is right for the
cat and her kittens in this instance.

Tiggy is now living about a mile down the road, where there are no
other cats or animals for her to catch or pass on any infections to.

The news about Lucy is devastating though & we are not sure how to
take it, or what the best course of action would be in her case. I
know that there are several of you who have cats that are Fhv
positive, but is there anyone out there who has a cat who is possitive
to both Fhv & Fcv too?
I would love to hear from you if you have, to hear how you cope with
the disease & advice on the best course of action to take now,
considering that we still have 6 other cats to take into
consideration. The strangest thing is that we didn't think that Lucy
was all that ill when the pandemic hit?!!
I am still reeling a bit from the results, so any views on how to cope
with this new unknown would be greatly appreciated indeed.

I feel terribly responsible for the whole situation, & could kick
myself for not isolating Lucy(fur!) properly when we first got her;we
got caught up in the emotion & let our guard down, & now we all pay
the price for it.
Guilt is a useless feeling, so I shall set that aside now & pray for a
good outcome. If not, I only have myself to blame here..I made the
error...
S.

On Sat 24 Feb 2007 12:36:11p, sheelagh wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ups.com:

snip

The news about Lucy is devastating though & we are not sure how
to take it, or what the best course of action would be in her
case. I know that there are several of you who have cats that
are Fhv positive, but is there anyone out there who has a cat
who is possitive to both Fhv & Fcv too?
I would love to hear from you if you have, to hear how you cope
with the disease & advice on the best course of action to take
now, considering that we still have 6 other cats to take into
consideration. The strangest thing is that we didn't think that
Lucy was all that ill when the pandemic hit?!!
I am still reeling a bit from the results, so any views on how
to cope with this new unknown would be greatly appreciated
indeed.

snip

I'm happy to hear Tiggy is fine, and is isolated. Best wishes and
purrs for her and the kits health.

As for herpes virus and calicivirus, I wouldn't worry too much
about it if Lucy doesn't seem sick. She's probably a carrier. Not
at all uncommon, and you've seen what a carrier can do, and you
wouldn't want to expose kittens to her. Not fun, but managable.
Scarlett and Rhett, now over 2-1/2 years old, were both very sick
with suspected and likely herpes virus, but no tests had been done
to confirm it - we just treated it. It was recurred for months,
but they were young and found outside with other littermates who
were also sick, so they kept passing URIs between each other. At
around 6 months old, each of them had pretty much "outgrown" it,
but they still have goopy eyes from time to time. L-Lysine is very
effective for FHV and sometimes has to be given for life.

FCV is something I haven't seen much of, and one day I noticed
Scarlett with what looked like an infected lip. These guys all play
rough, and there have been several cases of torn eyes that have had
to be treated, and I thought it was the same thing, caused by
someone's claw. Took her to emergency because it was on a Saturday
afternoon (figures!) and if she had an infection I didn't want to
wait until I could get her in to our regular vet. The emergency vet
diagnosed it as viral and not an infection, and forwarded the
diagnosis of FCV to our vet. This was last summer; it went away in
a week and it's never come back. But both of these viruses are
prone to stress, so if there is stress in their life, it could
bring on symptoms. Other than that, I don't worry about it. Just
my experience with these. Good luck and don't beat yourself up.



--
Cheryl

On Feb 24, 1:34 pm, Cheryl wrote:
On Sat 24 Feb2007 12:36:11p, sheelagh wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ups.com:

snip

The news about Lucy is devastating though & we are not sure how
to take it, or what the best course of action would be in her
case. I know that there are several of you who have cats that
are Fhv positive, but is there anyone out there who has a cat
who is possitive to both Fhv & Fcv too?
I would love to hear from you if you have, to hear how you cope
with the disease & advice on the best course of action to take
now, considering that we still have 6 other cats to take into
consideration. The strangest thing is that we didn't think that
Lucy was all that ill when the pandemic hit?!!
I am still reeling a bit from the results, so any views on how
to cope with this new unknown would be greatly appreciated
indeed.

snip

I'm happy to hear Tiggy is fine, and is isolated. Best wishes and
purrs for her and the kits health.

As for herpes virus and calicivirus, I wouldn't worry too much
about it if Lucy doesn't seem sick. She's probably a carrier. Not
at all uncommon, and you've seen what a carrier can do, and you
wouldn't want to expose kittens to her. Not fun, but managable.
Scarlett and Rhett, now over 2-1/2 years old, were both very sick
with suspected and likely herpes virus, but no tests had been done
to confirm it - we just treated it. It was recurred for months,
but they were young and found outside with other littermates who
were also sick, so they kept passing URIs between each other. At
around 6 months old, each of them had pretty much "outgrown" it,
but they still have goopy eyes from time to time. L-Lysine is very
effective for FHV and sometimes has to be given for life.

FCV is something I haven't seen much of, and one day I noticed
Scarlett with what looked like an infected lip. These guys all play
rough, and there have been several cases of torn eyes that have had
to be treated, and I thought it was the same thing, caused by
someone's claw. Took her to emergency because it was on a Saturday
afternoon (figures!) and if she had an infection I didn't want to
wait until I could get her in to our regular vet. The emergency vet
diagnosed it as viral and not an infection, and forwarded the
diagnosis of FCV to our vet. This was last summer; it went away in
a week and it's never come back. But both of these viruses are
prone to stress, so if there is stress in their life, it could
bring on symptoms. Other than that, I don't worry about it. Just
my experience with these. Good luck and don't beat yourself up.

--
Cheryl

Hi Cheryl, Its me and, Bella and, 'homeless' kitty...

Read this link I am sending. I think it will GREATLY help!
www.belfield.com/Brochure.pdf

K--

On Feb 24, 2:02 pm, "Steena-Feena" wrote:
On Feb 24, 1:34 pm, Cheryl wrote:



On Sat 24 Feb2007 12:36:11p, sheelagh wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ups.com:

snip

The news about Lucy is devastating though & we are not sure how
to take it, or what the best course of action would be in her
case. I know that there are several of you who have cats that
are Fhv positive, but is there anyone out there who has a cat
who is possitive to both Fhv & Fcv too?
I would love to hear from you if you have, to hear how you cope
with the disease & advice on the best course of action to take
now, considering that we still have 6 other cats to take into
consideration. The strangest thing is that we didn't think that
Lucy was all that ill when the pandemic hit?!!
I am still reeling a bit from the results, so any views on how
to cope with this new unknown would be greatly appreciated
indeed.

snip

I'm happy to hear Tiggy is fine, and is isolated. Best wishes and
purrs for her and the kits health.

As for herpes virus and calicivirus, I wouldn't worry too much
about it if Lucy doesn't seem sick. She's probably a carrier. Not
at all uncommon, and you've seen what a carrier can do, and you
wouldn't want to expose kittens to her. Not fun, but managable.
Scarlett and Rhett, now over 2-1/2 years old, were both very sick
with suspected and likely herpes virus, but no tests had been done
to confirm it - we just treated it. It was recurred for months,
but they were young and found outside with other littermates who
were also sick, so they kept passing URIs between each other. At
around 6 months old, each of them had pretty much "outgrown" it,
but they still have goopy eyes from time to time. L-Lysine is very
effective for FHV and sometimes has to be given for life.

FCV is something I haven't seen much of, and one day I noticed
Scarlett with what looked like an infected lip. These guys all play
rough, and there have been several cases of torn eyes that have had
to be treated, and I thought it was the same thing, caused by
someone's claw. Took her to emergency because it was on a Saturday
afternoon (figures!) and if she had an infection I didn't want to
wait until I could get her in to our regular vet. The emergency vet
diagnosed it as viral and not an infection, and forwarded the
diagnosis of FCV to our vet. This was last summer; it went away in
a week and it's never come back. But both of these viruses are
prone to stress, so if there is stress in their life, it could
bring on symptoms. Other than that, I don't worry about it. Just
my experience with these. Good luck and don't beat yourself up.

--
Cheryl

Hi Cheryl, Its me and, Bella and, 'homeless' kitty...

Read this link I am sending. I think it will GREATLY help!www.belfield.com/Brochure.pdf

K--

Also, check out The Very Healthy Cat Book by Dr. Wendall O. Belfield

On 24 Feb, 18:34, Cheryl wrote:
On Sat 24 Feb 2007 12:36:11p, sheelagh wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
ups.com:



I'm happy to hear Tiggy is fine, and is isolated. Best wishes and
purrs for her and the kits health.

Thank you, these purrs are very good for the soul & we are grateful
for them, slaves & cats alike ,lol;o)

I don't want to read too far into the situation & the fact that she is
well now is excellent news, & far better than anything I could have
hoped for when I took her in to the vets to find out how far along she
was in her pregnancy
( you don't tend to do antenatal, unless you know that your cat is
pregnant, do you?)
Silly of me entirely not to realise that she was , but I honestly
didn't notice until I found a bulge or two that I didn't anticipate,
or plan for.. how foolish!!

As for herpes virus and calicivirus, I wouldn't worry too much
about it if Lucy doesn't seem sick. She's probably a carrier. Not
at all uncommon, and you've seen what a carrier can do, and you
wouldn't want to expose kittens to her.
This was the information that we read into it too.
I have been asked to take Lucy back in two weeks to repeat the tests
that they have already done to confirm the diagnosis...
I am heart broken, but try & imagine how Tilly feels? This is her
precious cat that we are talking about here? She has been bubbling
with tears all day over it!!
I have tried to calm , cuddle & cure, but so far it hasn't had any
effect.. I am sure that time will though....
I think that when we originally got this diagnosis, or possible
diagnosis... Tilly thought that I would try & home her as fast as
possible, so that she wasn't a threat to any of our other cats....
I HAVE REASSURED HER, that I will do nothing of the sort, but we want
to know as much as possible so that we know how to treat Lucy (fur!),
with regard to things like... do we allow her to roam free anymore..is
it like letting loose a walking time bomb for other cats? Is there
anything that we can do not to take her old life away from her..? To
roam the meadow @ her leisure, to hunt, to be free?
What is best for Lucy, as opposed to what is best for Tilly....??

No one knows better than me how easy it is for your emotions to get
the better of you & allow it to cloud your judgement- the best thing
for the cat in question....
Not fun, but manageable.
I expected that................

Scarlett and Rhett, now over 2-1/2 years old, were both very sick
with suspected and likely herpes virus, but no tests had been done
to confirm it - we just treated it. It was recurred for months,
but they were young and found outside with other litter mates who
were also sick, so they kept passing URIs between each other. At
around 6 months old, each of them had pretty much "outgrown" it,
but they still have goopy eyes from time to time. L-Lysine is very
effective for FHV and sometimes has to be given for life.

I will look into L-Lysine as soon as I have finished posting Cheryl.

FCV is something I haven't seen much of, and one day I noticed
Scarlett with what looked like an infected lip. These guys all play
rough, and there have been several cases of torn eyes that have had
to be treated, and I thought it was the same thing, caused by
someones claw. Took her to emergency because it was on a Saturday
afternoon (figures!) and if she had an infection I didn't want to
wait until I could get her in to our regular vet. The emergency vet
diagnosed it as viral and not an infection, and forwarded the
diagnosis of FCV to our vet. This was last summer; it went away in
a week and it's never come back. But both of these viruses are
prone to stress, so if there is stress in their life, it could
bring on symptoms. Other than that, I don't worry about it. Just
my experience with these. Good luck and don't beat yourself up.
Cheryl
I will certainly try not to...beat myself up
Actually, I have another couple of links that you might be interested
to read too...especially if you have cats that are prone to one or the
other, or worse, Both!!

http://www.harpsie.com/cat_flu.htm

http://www.thensome.com/herpes.htm

I found both of them to be extremely helpful & hope that you do too.
Pay particular attention to the reply from Dr Margter muns as well?

I also wanted to thank K, whilst I am here , for her input too. I will
read your link shortly.

I hope that you catch your cat & that Bella will accept her in good
time.
Your main object now, is to trap her, then vet her... you only have
to worry about them getting on after you have trapped and treated her
before your kitten season starts?
(I am in the UK!)
Best of luck there, & look forward to other chats regarding her
Cheryl, do you have any photos of your slave drivers at all that you
might be able to share? I have been corresponding with you over some
time now c& would love to fit some names to the faces, as long as you
don't mind of course?
thanks for all your support, in helping me make the best of a sad
situation. I am trying not to be too upbeat, or down beat either.
You make the best of what you have and work with it, hey?
S;o)

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 09:36:11 -0800, sheelagh wrote:

Sorry it has taken so long for me to get back to you with details and
results of tests, but we had to wait for them, & I've had no PC for a
couple of days either.

After every cats swabs, blood tests, cultures, we had to wait for the
results which were somewhat surprising, & I needed to find out what we
could do for Tiggy, baring in mind that she has had no antenatal care,
& results of the ultrasound tests to tell us what stage we are in her
pregnancy too.

The first shock was to find out that Lucy(fur!) is Fhv positive & the
most probably source of infection because she is also Fcv positive
too;o(

All of the other cats white counts are more or less back to normal &
the cultures told them that the only cat not infected at all, was
Tiggy.

Tiggy is into her 7th week of pregnancy, & the surgery were reluctant
to abort the kitten, if there was any possible way that we could
isolate her.

This has been arranged & Tiggy has already gone to a foster home until
the end of her confinement, & the rearing of her kittens is complete
( this is assuming that all goes well of course!!)

They even took some amniotic fluid to see if they were viable, which
sounded rather strange, but I believe them.
It was hard watching Tiggy go, but I have to do what is right for the
cat and her kittens in this instance.

Tiggy is now living about a mile down the road, where there are no
other cats or animals for her to catch or pass on any infections to.

The news about Lucy is devastating though & we are not sure how to
take it, or what the best course of action would be in her case. I
know that there are several of you who have cats that are Fhv
positive, but is there anyone out there who has a cat who is possitive
to both Fhv & Fcv too?
I would love to hear from you if you have, to hear how you cope with
the disease & advice on the best course of action to take now,
considering that we still have 6 other cats to take into
consideration. The strangest thing is that we didn't think that Lucy
was all that ill when the pandemic hit?!!
I am still reeling a bit from the results, so any views on how to cope
with this new unknown would be greatly appreciated indeed.

I feel terribly responsible for the whole situation, & could kick
myself for not isolating Lucy(fur!) properly when we first got her;we
got caught up in the emotion & let our guard down, & now we all pay
the price for it.
Guilt is a useless feeling, so I shall set that aside now & pray for a
good outcome. If not, I only have myself to blame here..I made the
error...
S.


You have our heartfelt sympathy and purrs for a favorable outcome. MLB

on Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:49:57 GMT, "sheelagh"
wrote:

I will look into L-Lysine as soon as I have finished posting Cheryl.

Sheelagh, Levi has FHV and has been very seriously ill with it at times--
especially when he was very tiny. After he was on L-lysine for several
months, his outbreaks became milder and shorter in duration. At this
point they might even go unnoticed if he wasn't literally attached to my
lip so much of the time. Yesterday he had a few sneezes and his eyes
were just a bit watery, but today he's got absolutely no symptoms. I
plan to keep him on L-lysine indefinitely, just to be safe.

The doseage of L-lysine for cats is 500 mg per day. The most economical
formulation of L-lysine are the 500 mg capsules. I got mine at a health
food store. I open up a capsule in the morning and sprinkle half the
contents on his wet food, and then do it again in the evening. He
doesn't seem to notice the taste at all. Lysine is an enzyme and it's
harmless in the recommended doses, so I give Rudy the leftover food (when
there is any). I try to make sure the powder is on the top of the food
rather than mixing it in so I'm sure that Levi gets all or most of it.

You can get some prefilled oral syringes with a tasty paste form of L-
lysine that are certainly more convenient, but I found the price too
prohibitive.

I'm sorry to hear that Lucy(fur) has this and also FCV, and even sorrier
that your feline family was effected so severely. Thank goodness that
Tiggy is healthy, though! This makes me very happy for you, because even
though the kittens will be born and reared someplace else, you will still
get to enjoy them (just please use strict handwashing practices!).

What little I know about FCV is that it can live on surfaces outside the
body for a period of time, but not an obscene period of time. While it's
nothing like ringworm and I don't think it will be the same ordeal you
had to go through with that, you should do some research about how to
clean and prevent reinfection. Unfortunately, these viruses/diseases are
the risk we take when we keep multiple cats. What may be encouraging for
you is that Rudy has shown absolutely zero signs of having contracted FHV
from Levi, even those times when Levi was running green from every
orifice on his face. I imagine that the FCV was what ran amok with your
cats, and hopefully after this first exposure they will all have immunity
to it again. Please understand that I'm not experienced with this,
though, and haven't researched it, so definitely do some reading. I hope
you will find what you learn to be reassuring.

Sheelagh, you've really been through the mill lately. My heart goes out
to you and all of your beauties.

--
Lynne

On Sat 24 Feb 2007 06:49:57p, sheelagh wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
roups.com:

Cheryl, do you have any photos of your slave drivers at all that
you might be able to share? I have been corresponding with you
over some time now c& would love to fit some names to the faces,
as long as you don't mind of course?


Do I have pictures? LOL I have a bajillion pictures. I have
several online photo albums, so take your pick.

The oldest album that sort of chronicles the illness of my heart
cat, Shadow, and the introduction of Shamrock
http://pets.webshots.com/album/48246898KBEaSJ

Feral Bonnie's first album from her socialization
http://pets.webshots.com/album/75552731ngVsAM

This album chronicles Scarlett and Rhett from the time they were
kittens until recently (I need to put up new pics!)
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/shambond...71497983#page1

And here is an album with more recent pictures of Shamrock and
Bonnie:
http://new.photos.yahoo.com/shambond...60762371498682

Hey, you asked for pictures, so don't blame me if you get bored. LOL


--
Cheryl

on Sun, 25 Feb 2007 01:58:17 GMT, Cheryl
wrote:

Hey, you asked for pictures, so don't blame me if you get bored. LOL

Hey! I remember looking at your photos a while back, but didn't put 2 and
2 together until just now. I love your Shamrock--both what you have posted
about him and his amazing good looks!! (Your other cats are wonderful,
too!)

So today I was at the shelter and met a 1 year old cat that reminded me
*someone* that I couldn't place. It was Shamrock! They even look alike.
I forgot it was Shamrock who he reminded me of, though, until just now.

He was all over me... god I wanted him, but the timing is just not right,
unfortunately. I am leaving town for a week on Thursday. Today we were
just there to visit with the cats and dogs. It was really hard to leave
him, but probably for the best since we're getting a puppy on March 31 and
that's going to be stressful enough for Levi.

He was so sweet that I have no doubt he'll be snatched up, but you can bet
I'll be checking on him.

--
Lynne

On Sat 24 Feb 2007 09:16:49p, Lynne wrote in
rec.pets.cats.health+behav
:

He was so sweet that I have no doubt he'll be snatched up, but
you can bet I'll be checking on him.

You're right to think about keeping the stress level down for Levi,
but you might be surprised about cats with purrsonalities like
Shamrock. He came to me as a foster cat, and I took him to
adoption shows 2x per month at PetSmarts and PetCo's per the foster
agreement. No one wanted him, though everyone oooh'd and awww'd
over his outgoing purrsonality, and how friendly he is. He wanted
to be held, and he cried and cried in his little cage and when
someone paid attention to him, he cried even more. I imagined him
screaming to people, TAKE ME HOME WITH YOU!!! GET ME OUT OF THIS
CAGE!!! I set a date that would be the last adoption show he would
go to, and if he wasn't adopted by then, he would have a
foreverhome with me. His last show, one of the employees of the pet
store we showed in wanted him. At that point I realized that I had
already decided his foster days were over, so I had to say no to
him. I got so attached to him and his affectionate ways, but as
affectionate as he was (and still is), he is also very aggressive
toward me. It's all part of who he is. That, plus his allergies
that have persisted make me glad he was never adopted. I'm not so
sure anyone could have dealt with it.

--
Cheryl