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Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 26th 07, 09:55 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
CatMan07
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Posts: 3
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??

My cat seems to have flutd. Howell says to acidify the urine, give the
cat ammonium chloride. Anyone have any ideas on how to use that? I
imagine I could add it to the drinking water. The taste might put him
off though. Adding it to fish might be better, as messing with his
water sounds like a really BAD idea, under the circumstances. He is
getting better as I speak as his urine output is increasing. His last
one was approximately the size of a ping-pong ball.
CatMan

  #2  
Old August 26th 07, 11:36 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
---MIKE---
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Posts: 869
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??

Get your cat on a canned food diet. This will provide the moisture
needed to prevent crystal formation. You may say that the cat drinks
water-but that doesn't help to keep crystals from forming.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


  #4  
Old August 27th 07, 02:38 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??


"CatMan07" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:36:15 -0400,
(---MIKE---) wrote:

Get your cat on a canned food diet. This will provide the moisture
needed to prevent crystal formation. You may say that the cat drinks
water-but that doesn't help to keep crystals from forming.


Thanks for the advice, Mike; and I will not be feeding dry food in the
future. The challenge for me at the moment remains: how do I acidify
my cats urine immediately in order to dissolve the struvate which may
be partially blocking his urethra? Do you have any ideas about that?
CatMan


First off- are you *absolutely* sure your cat's uroliths are composed of
struvite and not calcium oxalate? Acidifying the urine in a cat that has
calcium oxalate uroliths or crystals is like pouring gasoline on a fire.
Years ago about 90% of the crystals found in cats was struvite. But since
the advent of so-called acidified urinary tract health diets the incidence
of struvite has decreased while the incidence of calcium oxalate has
increased ~10x to almost 50%. So, before you start manipulating your cat's
urine pH, make sure you know which way you have to go.

If your cat has struvite, speak to your vet about Hill's Prescription Diet
s/d. This diet is designed to dissolve struvite. You can also buy urine
acidifiers in tablet and gel form. However, you must be careful-
dl-methionine is toxic to cats in high doses. Don't give your cat a urine
acidifier if your feeding him a specially acidified diet. Calcium oxalate
uroliths cannot be dissolved and must be removed surgically if it doesn't
pass or can't be retrieved.

If the problem turns out to be struvite, you can reduce the risk of future
occurrences by feeding your cat a *meat-based* canned diet twice a day- 12
hours apart. The sulfur-containing amino acids and phospholipids in meat
acidify the urine, whereas diets containing a lot of plant materials
alkalinize it. Long periods between meals allows the cat's natural urine
acidity to return and dissolve any struvite that might have formed during
the postprandial alkaline tide.

In either case, a canned diet will help reduce the formation of both types
of crystals because it increases urine volume and dilutes the concentration
of crystal-forming particles in the urine making them easier to eliminate.
Canned diets also cause more frequent urination which helps eliminate
particles before they can aggregate or accrete into larger and larger
particles that eventually become crystals and uroliths.

Best of luck,

Phil


  #5  
Old August 27th 07, 08:29 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Cat Protector
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Posts: 378
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??

First you need to get that cat to a vet so it can be properly diagnosed and
tested. One of my cats has had a UTI and the last thing you want to do is
start experimenting except maybe in regards to the food. In order to treat
FLUTD your cat needs to be put on antibiotics and a good solid diet.

--
Cat Galaxy: All Cats! All The Time!
www.catgalaxymedia.com

Panther TEK: Staying On Top Of Your Computer Needs!
www.panthertekit.com
"CatMan07" wrote in message
...
My cat seems to have flutd. Howell says to acidify the urine, give the
cat ammonium chloride. Anyone have any ideas on how to use that? I
imagine I could add it to the drinking water. The taste might put him
off though. Adding it to fish might be better, as messing with his
water sounds like a really BAD idea, under the circumstances. He is
getting better as I speak as his urine output is increasing. His last
one was approximately the size of a ping-pong ball.
CatMan



  #6  
Old August 28th 07, 04:13 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Rhonda[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 168
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??

CatMan07 wrote:

Thanks for the advice, Mike; and I will not be feeding dry food in the
future. The challenge for me at the moment remains: how do I acidify
my cats urine immediately in order to dissolve the struvate which may
be partially blocking his urethra? Do you have any ideas about that?
CatMan


Has the vet diagnosed this? Sometimes cats have bladder infections with
no crystals. Our cat at one time has crystals and an infection, the next
time -- just an infection.

What has the vet recommended as treatment?

Rhonda

  #7  
Old August 28th 07, 04:35 AM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
CatMan07
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:38:44 GMT, "Phil P."
wrote:


"CatMan07" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:36:15 -0400,
(---MIKE---) wrote:

Get your cat on a canned food diet. This will provide the moisture
needed to prevent crystal formation. You may say that the cat drinks
water-but that doesn't help to keep crystals from forming.


Thanks for the advice, Mike; and I will not be feeding dry food in the
future. The challenge for me at the moment remains: how do I acidify
my cats urine immediately in order to dissolve the struvate which may
be partially blocking his urethra? Do you have any ideas about that?
CatMan


Thanks for your most thoughtful reply, Phil. I really appreciate it.


First off- are you *absolutely* sure your cat's uroliths are composed of
struvite and not calcium oxalate?


No, I'm not sure. In fact, I have my doubts as I've only fed my cat a
reduced magnesium dry cat food, with the occasional canned fish
treat..

Acidifying the urine in a cat that has
calcium oxalate uroliths or crystals is like pouring gasoline on a fire.
Years ago about 90% of the crystals found in cats was struvite. But since
the advent of so-called acidified urinary tract health diets the incidence
of struvite has decreased while the incidence of calcium oxalate has
increased ~10x to almost 50%.


Can it be that the "cure" is worse than the "disease"?

So, before you start manipulating your cat's
urine pH, make sure you know which way you have to go.

If your cat has struvite, speak to your vet about Hill's Prescription Diet
s/d. This diet is designed to dissolve struvite. You can also buy urine
acidifiers in tablet and gel form. However, you must be careful-
dl-methionine is toxic to cats in high doses. Don't give your cat a urine
acidifier if your feeding him a specially acidified diet. Calcium oxalate
uroliths cannot be dissolved and must be removed surgically if it doesn't
pass or can't be retrieved.


Considering my cat's low Mg diet, there is a very good chance, as you
say, that the blockage may be calcium oxalate. As mucus is formed
around urethral crystals, I thought that an anti-inflammatory food
such as salmon might reduce the inflammation (AND the associated
swelling) and increase the possibility that the stone, of whatever
composition, will be more likely to pass naturally. The increase in
the volume of the urine is substantiating this idea, imho. The omega
3s in the salmon are also blood thinners, so I am not surprised that
there is some visible blood in the urine now.


If the problem turns out to be struvite, you can reduce the risk of future
occurrences by feeding your cat a *meat-based* canned diet twice a day- 12
hours apart. The sulfur-containing amino acids and phospholipids in meat
acidify the urine, whereas diets containing a lot of plant materials
alkalinize it.


It sounds like a meat-based diet is just better all-round for cats. So
CORN, being the FIRST ingredient in my cat's dry food is BAD, and may
turn out to have been REALLY BAD!

Long periods between meals allows the cat's natural urine
acidity to return and dissolve any struvite that might have formed during
the postprandial alkaline tide.


So would feeding him once a day be even better?

In either case, a canned diet will help reduce the formation of both types
of crystals because it increases urine volume and dilutes the concentration
of crystal-forming particles in the urine making them easier to eliminate.


My cat really likes the juice from the canned salmon, even better than
the salmon itself! Go figure. So I've been adding some water to the
juice to get more fluids in him. That seems to be one of the things
that is working the best. Is there something I can add to my cat's
water that will make him drink more? I sure hope so.

Canned diets also cause more frequent urination which helps eliminate
particles before they can aggregate or accrete into larger and larger
particles that eventually become crystals and uroliths.


Can you please explain how a canned-food diet increases urination? I
thought they put salt in dry food to encourage water consumption. Not
enough though, I guess.
CatMan


Best of luck,

Phil



  #8  
Old August 28th 07, 01:54 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Catman 07
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 20
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??

On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:38:44 GMT, "Phil P."
wrote:


"CatMan07" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 26 Aug 2007 18:36:15 -0400,
(---MIKE---) wrote:

Get your cat on a canned food diet. This will provide the moisture
needed to prevent crystal formation. You may say that the cat drinks
water-but that doesn't help to keep crystals from forming.


Thanks for the advice, Mike; and I will not be feeding dry food in the
future. The challenge for me at the moment remains: how do I acidify
my cats urine immediately in order to dissolve the struvate which may
be partially blocking his urethra? Do you have any ideas about that?
CatMan


First off- are you *absolutely* sure your cat's uroliths are composed of
struvite and not calcium oxalate? Acidifying the urine in a cat that has
calcium oxalate uroliths or crystals is like pouring gasoline on a fire.
Years ago about 90% of the crystals found in cats was struvite. But since
the advent of so-called acidified urinary tract health diets the incidence
of struvite has decreased while the incidence of calcium oxalate has
increased ~10x to almost 50%. So, before you start manipulating your cat's
urine pH, make sure you know which way you have to go.

If your cat has struvite, speak to your vet about Hill's Prescription Diet
s/d. This diet is designed to dissolve struvite. You can also buy urine
acidifiers in tablet and gel form. However, you must be careful-
dl-methionine is toxic to cats in high doses. Don't give your cat a urine
acidifier if your feeding him a specially acidified diet. Calcium oxalate
uroliths cannot be dissolved and must be removed surgically if it doesn't
pass or can't be retrieved.

If the problem turns out to be struvite, you can reduce the risk of future
occurrences by feeding your cat a *meat-based* canned diet twice a day- 12
hours apart. The sulfur-containing amino acids and phospholipids in meat
acidify the urine, whereas diets containing a lot of plant materials
alkalinize it. Long periods between meals allows the cat's natural urine
acidity to return and dissolve any struvite that might have formed during
the postprandial alkaline tide.

In either case, a canned diet will help reduce the formation of both types
of crystals because it increases urine volume and dilutes the concentration
of crystal-forming particles in the urine making them easier to eliminate.
Canned diets also cause more frequent urination which helps eliminate
particles before they can aggregate or accrete into larger and larger
particles that eventually become crystals and uroliths.

Best of luck,

Phil

Thanks, Phil. I just read your article on dry vs wet cat food on your
maxshouse.com site. The dry cat food I"ve stopped using says it is
"approved by veterinarians". So WHY are none of the many facts you
present AGAINST dry cat food mentioned on the label?! If vets are
going to give their "Stamp of Approval" to a product they KNOW is
detrimental, then I must ask: What the hell is going on?! Are we
being intentionally MISLED?
Catman


  #9  
Old August 30th 07, 04:18 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??


"Catman 07" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:38:44 GMT, "Phil P."
wrote:


Thanks, Phil. I just read your article on dry vs wet cat food on your
maxshouse.com site. The dry cat food I"ve stopped using says it is
"approved by veterinarians". So WHY are none of the many facts you
present AGAINST dry cat food mentioned on the label?!



Because if they were no one would buy the food.... Most of the knowledge
that most vets have about nutrition came from pet food company sales reps.


If vets are
going to give their "Stamp of Approval" to a product they KNOW is
detrimental, then I must ask: What the hell is going on?!


It only takes one or two vets to endorse a product to substantiate the claim
"Veterinarian Approved" or "Recommended by Veterinarians"-- and those vets
probably work for the company.



Are we
being intentionally MISLED?


Ya think???





  #10  
Old August 30th 07, 04:20 PM posted to rec.pets.cats.health+behav
Phil P.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,027
Default Feline Lower Urinary Tract Disease (FLUTD) treatment??


"CatMan07" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:38:44 GMT, "Phil P."
wrote:

First off- are you *absolutely* sure your cat's uroliths are composed of
struvite and not calcium oxalate?


No, I'm not sure. In fact, I have my doubts as I've only fed my cat a
reduced magnesium dry cat food, with the occasional canned fish
treat..


Has your cat even been seen by a vet? or are you just guessing? If your cat
hasn't been seen by vet, I suggest you bring him in right away. Urinary
tract problems in male cats can become life threatening very quickly .

Your cat might not even have crystals/uroliths. Feline Interstitial
Cystitis can produce symptoms that resemble a partial urethral obstruction.
Inflammation in the bladder or urethra produces the same type of sensation
and urge to urinate as a full bladder whether the bladder is full or empty.
If the bladder is actually empty, the cat will appear to be blocked and
straining to urinate. If you start playing with his urine pH without knowing
what his problem is you might be create a more serious problem than he
actually has.



Acidifying the urine in a cat that has
calcium oxalate uroliths or crystals is like pouring gasoline on a fire.
Years ago about 90% of the crystals found in cats was struvite. But since
the advent of so-called acidified urinary tract health diets the

incidence
of struvite has decreased while the incidence of calcium oxalate has
increased ~10x to almost 50%.


Can it be that the "cure" is worse than the "disease"?

So, before you start manipulating your cat's
urine pH, make sure you know which way you have to go.

If your cat has struvite, speak to your vet about Hill's Prescription

Diet
s/d. This diet is designed to dissolve struvite. You can also buy urine
acidifiers in tablet and gel form. However, you must be careful-
dl-methionine is toxic to cats in high doses. Don't give your cat a urine
acidifier if your feeding him a specially acidified diet. Calcium oxalate
uroliths cannot be dissolved and must be removed surgically if it doesn't
pass or can't be retrieved.


Considering my cat's low Mg diet, there is a very good chance, as you
say, that the blockage may be calcium oxalate. As mucus is formed
around urethral crystals,


First off- you're describing a urethral *plug* not a stone (urolith) or
crystal. A urethral plug
is something like fruit jello where the mucus would be like the gelatin and
the crystals would like the fruit. Uroliths don't contain mucus. Male cats
are more likely to develop urethral plugs than uroliths.

I thought that an anti-inflammatory food
such as salmon might reduce the inflammation (AND the associated
swelling) and increase the possibility that the stone, of whatever
composition, will be more likely to pass naturally.



Possible but not probable.




The increase in
the volume of the urine is substantiating this idea, imho. The omega
3s in the salmon are also blood thinners, so I am not surprised that
there is some visible blood in the urine now.



The blood in the urine (hematuria) is more likely the result of small tears
in the bladder from straining to urinate or from irritations or lacerations
to
the bladder or urethral mucosa from crystals. Over distention of the bladder
can also produce small tears that will produce hematuria.




If the problem turns out to be struvite, you can reduce the risk of

future
occurrences by feeding your cat a *meat-based* canned diet twice a day-

12
hours apart. The sulfur-containing amino acids and phospholipids in meat
acidify the urine, whereas diets containing a lot of plant materials
alkalinize it.


It sounds like a meat-based diet is just better all-round for cats. So
CORN, being the FIRST ingredient in my cat's dry food is BAD, and may
turn out to have been REALLY BAD!

Long periods between meals allows the cat's natural urine
acidity to return and dissolve any struvite that might have formed during
the postprandial alkaline tide.


So would feeding him once a day be even better?



No.


In either case, a canned diet will help reduce the formation of both

types
of crystals because it increases urine volume and dilutes the

concentration
of crystal-forming particles in the urine making them easier to

eliminate.

My cat really likes the juice from the canned salmon, even better than
the salmon itself! Go figure. So I've been adding some water to the
juice to get more fluids in him. That seems to be one of the things
that is working the best. Is there something I can add to my cat's
water that will make him drink more? I sure hope so.


I use home-made chicken broth without the spices to increase water
consumption in cats that need extra hydration.


Canned diets also cause more frequent urination which helps eliminate
particles before they can aggregate or accrete into larger and larger
particles that eventually become crystals and uroliths.


Can you please explain how a canned-food diet increases urination?


Canned food increases total water intake which in turn increases urine
volume that results in more frequent urination.


I
thought they put salt in dry food to encourage water consumption. Not
enough though, I guess.


You guessed right. Cats fed dry food drink more water than cats fed canned
food but most of the water goes into fecal moisture rather than urine
volume.






 




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