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Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 28th 07, 07:22 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 67
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" wrote:

The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
the assumptions:

1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.


Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to understand
that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that everyone
else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your attempts
to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order to
reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
from it.

That's crazy.


You are the ones who give the impression that you're too stupid
to understand, so if anyone has that impression it is YOUR fault.
As I pointed out above, some of us believe you are really more
dishonest than you are stupid, though maybe not by much.

I must kill and occassional ant driving to work. I admit it. So
there.


· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings

2. The anti's don't think we vegetarians care about numbers. But clearly
the death of one animal is better than the death of 1000. It's not a hard
concept.


Here we see plowing:
http://tinyurl.com/8fmxe

and here harrowing:
http://tinyurl.com/zqr2v

both of which kill animals by crushing, mutilation, suffocation,
and exposing them to predators. We can see that planting
kills in similar ways:
http://tinyurl.com/k6sku

and death from herbicides and pesticides needs to be
kept in mind:
http://tinyurl.com/ew2j5

Harvesting kills of course by crushing and mutilation, and
it also removes the surviving animals' food, and it exposes
them to predators:
http://tinyurl.com/otp5l

In the case of rice there's additional killing as well caused
by flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/qhqx3

and later by draining and destroying the environment which
developed as the result of the flooding:
http://tinyurl.com/rc9m3

Cattle eating grass rarely if ever cause anywhere near
as much suffering and death. ·
http://tinyurl.com/q7whm

3. They think we can not acknowledge that a clam's life is worth less than
a horse. Well it is. Clearly a clam is less sentient and sapient. Let's
get real here. You want me to value and ant over my dog???


"There’s no rational basis for saying that a human being has special
rights. A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. They’re all animals." - Newkirk

4. They think a movement will start where former vegetarians and ethical
eaters are going to start eating rare grass fed cows (as if they were
ubiquitous) which produce loads of harmful methane, to cut down on the total
numbers of deaths. They accept Stephen Davis' numbers blindly with no
critical thinking.


The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

What kind of movement are they talking about?


One that provides decent lives for billions of livestock animals.

Vegetarian for McDonalds?


Obviously not since veg*nism does nothing to help any
livestock, much less to provide decent lives for them.

They know full well the more workable system is
for vegetarians to be vegetarians, not search out grass fed cows.


People who want to contribute to decent lives for livestock
must do it by being more conscientious consumers of animal
products. The can NOT do it by being veg*n.

5. Most of the anti's here aren't in favor of ethical eating and don't
admit to finding ethical eating desirable or possible. So they are
qualified for this discussion?


Obviously people in favor of providing decent animal welfare
for livestock are more qualified to discuss it than people who
want to eliminate livestock instead. The gross misnomer "animal
rights" would not provide better lives, longer lives, rights, or any
life at all for domestic animals. The misnomer would ELIMINATE
domestic animals which of course would make rights or even
decent welfare for them impossible, since they would not exist.
Since advocates of the misnomer contribute to almost all if not
more wildlife deaths than other people do, we have no reason
to believe they would provide rights for wildlife either. The biggest
question associated with the misnomer is:

Which rights for which animals???
  #2  
Old December 3rd 07, 12:11 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
Bob LeChevalier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

Rupert wrote:

On Nov 28, 11:22 am, [email protected] wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" wrote:
The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
the assumptions:


1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.


Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to understand
that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that everyone
else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your attempts
to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order to
reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
from it.


Did you listen to him? He acknowledged that deaths occur in order to
support his lifestyle.



Screams of the Vegetables
by The Arrogant Worms
http://www.arrogant-worms.com/

Listen up brothers and sisters,
come hear my desperate tale.
I speak of our friends of nature,
trapped in the dirt like a jail.

Vegetables live in oppression,
served on our tables each night.
This killing of veggies is madness,
I say we take up the fight.

Salads are only for murderers,
coleslaw's a fascist regime.
Don't think that they don't have feelings,
just cause a radish can't scream.

Chorus:
I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (having their insides revealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
How do you think that feels (bet it hurts really bad)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables go)
It's time to stop all this gardening (it's dirty as hell)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade is a spade)

I saw a man eating celery,
so I beat him black and blue.
If he ever touches a sprout again,
I'll bite him clean in two.

I'm a political prisoner,
trapped in a windowless cage.
Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips
by killing five men in a rage

I told the judge when he sentenced me,
This is my finest hour,
I'd kill those farmers again
just to save one more cauliflower

Chorus

How low as people do we dare to stoop,
Making young broccolis bleed in the soup?
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato!

I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (fates in the stirfry are sealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (you fat gourmet slob)
How do you think that feels? (leave them out in the field)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (V8's genocide)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (yes, your composts are graves)
It's time to stop all this gardening (take up macrame)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade, is a spade, is a spade, is a
spade.....



  #3  
Old December 4th 07, 05:16 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
Bob LeChevalier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

Rupert wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:11 am, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Rupert wrote:
On Nov 28, 11:22 am, [email protected] wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" wrote:
The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
the assumptions:


1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.


Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to understand
that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that everyone
else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your attempts
to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order to
reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
from it.


Did you listen to him? He acknowledged that deaths occur in order to
support his lifestyle.


Screams of the Vegetables
by The Arrogant Wormshttp://www.arrogant-worms.com/

Listen up brothers and sisters,
come hear my desperate tale.
I speak of our friends of nature,
trapped in the dirt like a jail.

Vegetables live in oppression,
served on our tables each night.
This killing of veggies is madness,
I say we take up the fight.

Salads are only for murderers,
coleslaw's a fascist regime.
Don't think that they don't have feelings,
just cause a radish can't scream.

Chorus:
I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (having their insides revealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
How do you think that feels (bet it hurts really bad)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables go)
It's time to stop all this gardening (it's dirty as hell)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade is a spade)

I saw a man eating celery,
so I beat him black and blue.
If he ever touches a sprout again,
I'll bite him clean in two.

I'm a political prisoner,
trapped in a windowless cage.
Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips
by killing five men in a rage

I told the judge when he sentenced me,
This is my finest hour,
I'd kill those farmers again
just to save one more cauliflower

Chorus

How low as people do we dare to stoop,
Making young broccolis bleed in the soup?
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato!

I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (fates in the stirfry are sealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (you fat gourmet slob)
How do you think that feels? (leave them out in the field)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (V8's genocide)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (yes, your composts are graves)
It's time to stop all this gardening (take up macrame)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade, is a spade, is a spade, is a
spade.....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I hope, for your sake, that you are just having a joke and that you
realize how stupid this is.


The whole topic is a joke.
When someone mentions "vegetarian" and "kill" in the same sentence, I
think of that song, and I laugh.

All ideologies are wrong. It is appropriate to laugh at them.
Someone posts ideological discussion to the education newsgroups, and
I will laugh at them (especially if they crosspost it to the dog and
cat newsgroups)

lojbab
  #4  
Old December 4th 07, 01:19 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
pearl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message ...
Rupert wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:11 am, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Rupert wrote:
On Nov 28, 11:22 am, [email protected] wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook" wrote:
The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here are under
the assumptions:

1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.

Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to understand
that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that everyone
else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your attempts
to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order to
reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
from it.

Did you listen to him? He acknowledged that deaths occur in order to
support his lifestyle.

Screams of the Vegetables
by The Arrogant Wormshttp://www.arrogant-worms.com/

Listen up brothers and sisters,
come hear my desperate tale.
I speak of our friends of nature,
trapped in the dirt like a jail.

Vegetables live in oppression,
served on our tables each night.
This killing of veggies is madness,
I say we take up the fight.

Salads are only for murderers,
coleslaw's a fascist regime.
Don't think that they don't have feelings,
just cause a radish can't scream.

Chorus:
I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (having their insides revealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
How do you think that feels (bet it hurts really bad)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables go)
It's time to stop all this gardening (it's dirty as hell)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade is a spade)

I saw a man eating celery,
so I beat him black and blue.
If he ever touches a sprout again,
I'll bite him clean in two.

I'm a political prisoner,
trapped in a windowless cage.
Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips
by killing five men in a rage

I told the judge when he sentenced me,
This is my finest hour,
I'd kill those farmers again
just to save one more cauliflower

Chorus

How low as people do we dare to stoop,
Making young broccolis bleed in the soup?
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato!

I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (fates in the stirfry are sealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (you fat gourmet slob)
How do you think that feels? (leave them out in the field)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (V8's genocide)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (yes, your composts are graves)
It's time to stop all this gardening (take up macrame)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade, is a spade, is a spade, is a
spade.....- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I hope, for your sake, that you are just having a joke and that you
realize how stupid this is.


The whole topic is a joke.
When someone mentions "vegetarian" and "kill" in the same sentence, I
think of that song, and I laugh.

All ideologies are wrong. It is appropriate to laugh at them.
Someone posts ideological discussion to the education newsgroups, and
I will laugh at them (especially if they crosspost it to the dog and
cat newsgroups)

lojbab


Don't be so foolish. Think of this song, and cry.

Meat Is Murder / The Smiths

Heifer whines could be human cries
Closer comes the screaming knife
This beautiful creature must die
This beautiful creature must die
A death for no reason
And death for no reason is murder

And the flesh you so fancifully fry
Is not succulent, tasty or kind
Its death for no reason
And death for no reason is murder

And the calf that you carve with a smile
Is murder
And the turkey you festively slice
Is murder
Do you know how animals die ?

Kitchen aromas arent very homely
Its not comforting, cheery or kind
Its sizzling blood and the unholy stench
Of murder

Its not natural, normal or kind
The flesh you so fancifully fry
The meat in your mouth
As you savour the flavour
Of murder

No, no, no, its murder
No, no, no, its murder
Oh ... and who hears when animals cry ?




  #5  
Old December 4th 07, 08:19 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
Barb Knox
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

In article ,
"pearl" wrote:

[SNIP]

It[']s not natural


Humans are omnivores, as evidenced by (among other things) the teeth and
the intestines. So both eating meat and eating veggies are "natural".
Whether or not eating meat is considered "ethical" is a whole 'nother
kettle of fish (or fava beans).


--
---------------------------
| BBB b \ Barbara at LivingHistory stop co stop uk
| B B aa rrr b |
| BBB a a r bbb | Quidquid latine dictum sit,
| B B a a r b b | altum viditur.
| BBB aa a r bbb |
-----------------------------
  #6  
Old December 4th 07, 09:11 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
pearl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

"Barb Knox" wrote in message ...
In article ,
"pearl" wrote:

[SNIP]

It[']s not natural


Humans are omnivores, as evidenced by (among other things) the teeth and
the intestines. So both eating meat and eating veggies are "natural".


It's a very sorry state of affairs when 'we' don't even know what
our natural dietary niche is.

'One of the most famous anatomists, Baron Cuvier, wrote:
"The natural food of man, judging from his structure, appears to
consist principally of the fruits, roots, and other succulent parts
of vegetables. His hands afford every facility for gathering them;
his short but moderately strong jaws on the other hand, and his
canines being equal only in length to the other teeth, together with
his tuberculated molars on the other, would scarcely permit him
either to masticate herbage, or to devour flesh, were these
condiments not previously prepared by cooking."

The poet Shelley, in his essay, "A Vindication of a Natural Diet,"
wrote:

"Comparative anatomy teaches us that man resembles the
frugivorous animals in everything, the carnivorous in nothing...
It is only by softening and disguising dead flesh by culinary
preparation that it is rendered susceptible of mastication or
digestion, and that the sight of its bloody juices and raw horror
does not excite loathing and disgust...
...
'Linneaus, who introduced binomial nomenclature (naming plants
and animals according to their physical structure) wrote: "Man's
structure, external and internal, compared with that of other
animals shows that fruit and succulent vegetables constitute his
natural food."

Dr. F.A. Pouchet, 19th century author of The Universe, wrote
in his Pluralite' de la Race Humaine: "It has been truly said that
Man is frugivorous. All the details of his intestinal canal, and
above all his dentition, prove it in the most decided manner."

Professor William Lawrence, FRS, in his lectures delivered at
the Royal College of Surgeons in 1822, said:

"The teeth of man have not the slightest resemblance to those of
the carnivorous animals, excepting that their enamel is confined
to the external surface. He possesses, indeed, teeth called canine;
but they do not exceed the level of others, and are obviously
unsuited to the purposes which the corresponding teeth execute
in carnivorous animals. Thus we find, whether we consider the
teeth and jaws, or the immediate instruments of digestion, that the
human structure closely resembles that of the apes, all of whom,
in their natural state, are completely herbivorous (frugivorous)."

Professor Charles Bell, FRS, wrote in his 1829 work, Anatomy,
Physiology, and Diseases of the Teeth: "It is, I think, not going
too far to say that every fact connected with the human
organisation goes to prove that man was originally formed a
frugivorous animal. This opinion is derived principally from the
formation of his teeth and digestive organs, as well as from the
character of his skin and the general structure of his limbs."

Professor Richard Owen, FRS, in his elaborate 1845 work,
Odontography, wrote: "The apes and monkeys, whom man
nearly resembles in his dentition, derive their staple food from
fruits, grain, the kernels of nuts, and other forms in which the
most sapid and nutritious tissues of the vegetable kingdom are
elaborated; and the close resemblance between the
quadrumanous and the human dentition shows that man was,
from the beginning, adapted to eat the fruit of the tree of the
garden."
...
"Man, by nature, was never made to be a carnivorous animal,"
wrote John Ray, FRS, "nor is he armed for prey or rapine, with
jagged and pointed teeth, and claws to rend and tear; but with
gentle hands to gather fruit and vegetables, and with teeth to
chew and eat them."

According to Dr. Spenser Thompson, "No physiologist would
dispute with those who maintain that men ought to have a
vegetable diet."

Dr. S.M. Whitaker, MRCS, LRCP, in Man's Natural Food: An
Enquiry, concluded, "Comparative anatomy and physiology
indicate fresh fruits and vegetables as the main food of man."

More recently, William S. Collens and Gerald B. Dobkens
concluded: "Examination of the dental structure of modern man
reveals that he possesses all the features of a strictly herbivorous
animal. While designed to subsist on vegetarian foods, he has
perverted his dietary habits to accept food of the carnivore. It
is postulated that man cannot handle carnivorous foods like the
carnivore. Herein may lie the basis for the high incidence of
arteriosclerotic disease."
...'
http://www.all-creatures.org/murti/tsnhod-14.html

'Furthermore, William C. Roberts, M.D., Professor and Director
of the Baylor University Medical Center, and Editor in Chief of
the American Journal of Cardiology, stated in this peer-reviewed
journal,

Thus, although we think we are one and we act as if we are one,
human beings are not natural carnivores. When we kill animals to
eat them, they end up killing us because their flesh, which contains
cholesterol and saturated fat, was never intended for human beings,
who are natural herbivores.[11]
...
[11] Roberts, William C. American Journal of Cardiology.
Volume 66, P. 896. 1 Oct, 1990 .
...'
http://animalliberationfront.com/Phi...f_property.htm

'There appears to be no threshold of plant-food enrichment or
minimization of fat intake beyond which further disease prevention
does not occur. These findings suggest that even small intakes of
foods of animal origin are associated with significant increases in
plasma cholesterol concentrations, which are associated, in turn,
with significant increases in chronic degenerative disease mortality
rates. - Campbell TC, Junshi C. Diet and chronic degenerative
diseases: perspectives from China. Am J Clin Nutr 1994 May;59
(5 Suppl):1153S-1161S.'

Whether or not eating meat is considered "ethical" is a whole 'nother
kettle of fish (or fava beans).


You are familiar with The Golden Rule? "Do unto others....




  #7  
Old December 5th 07, 10:40 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
Bob LeChevalier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

Rupert wrote:
There are plenty of respectable arguments for ethical vegetarianism.


All based on assumptions that are peculiar to the ethical vegetarian,
and hence utterly meaningless to all the rest of us that reject those
assumptions.

You have given no evidence that you are aware of what they are.


There are meaningless to me, so I have tuned them out.

You are welcome to laugh at ethical vegetarianism if you want,

I laugh at all isms.

It's very interesting that you can dismiss a belief system purely on
the grounds that it is "ideological". What's your definition of an
ideology?


The inherently flawed idea that a group of assumptions is Truth and
that they can be systematically applied to real life. This usually
ends up involving the redefinition of words from the meaning used by
everyone else to some peculiar form that is a nice inside-joke for the
True Believers.

The redefinition of "murder" to include animals is one such
redefinition, and it begs the question of why killing animals is
murder, but not killing vegetables? Hence the song I posted.

I apologize if your newsgroups have been polluted with a topic you
don't regard as worthy of serious consideration. It was David Harrison
who did that, for reasons best known to himself, not the ethical
vegetarians.


No apology is necessary. One merely had to look at the header lists to
see that it wasn't serious discussion.

lojbab
  #8  
Old December 5th 07, 11:54 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
pearl
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message ...

The redefinition of "murder" to include animals is one such
redefinition,


'murder
...
v.tr.
1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
...
http://www.answers.com/murder&r=67

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the
murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
- Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist.


  #9  
Old December 5th 07, 12:22 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
Tim
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)


"Michael Gordge" wrote in message
...
On Dec 4, 2:16 pm, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Rupert wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:11 am, Bob LeChevalier wrote:
Rupert wrote:
On Nov 28, 11:22 am, [email protected] wrote:
On Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:34:46 -0500, "LarryLook"
wrote:
The problem with this newsgroup is the following. The anti's here
are under
the assumptions:


1. That vegetarians don't think modern lifestyle kills anything.


Some of us don't believe you're honestly too stupid to
understand
that you contribute to most of the same wildlife deaths that
everyone
else does. Some of us believe deep down you are actually aware
of it, meaning that we think you lie to everyone else in your
attempts
to promote veg*nism, and possibly even lie to yourselves in order
to
reduce the discomfort of your cognitive dissonance which results
from it.


Did you listen to him? He acknowledged that deaths occur in order to
support his lifestyle.


Screams of the Vegetables
by The Arrogant Wormshttp://www.arrogant-worms.com/


Listen up brothers and sisters,
come hear my desperate tale.
I speak of our friends of nature,
trapped in the dirt like a jail.


Vegetables live in oppression,
served on our tables each night.
This killing of veggies is madness,
I say we take up the fight.


Salads are only for murderers,
coleslaw's a fascist regime.
Don't think that they don't have feelings,
just cause a radish can't scream.


Chorus:
I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (having their insides revealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (burning off calories)
How do you think that feels (bet it hurts really bad)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (and that's a real crime)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (let my vegetables go)
It's time to stop all this gardening (it's dirty as hell)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade is a spade is a spade)


I saw a man eating celery,
so I beat him black and blue.
If he ever touches a sprout again,
I'll bite him clean in two.


I'm a political prisoner,
trapped in a windowless cage.
Cause I stopped the slaughter of turnips
by killing five men in a rage


I told the judge when he sentenced me,
This is my finest hour,
I'd kill those farmers again
just to save one more cauliflower


Chorus


How low as people do we dare to stoop,
Making young broccolis bleed in the soup?
Untie your beans, uncage your tomatoes
Let potted plants free, don't mash that potato!


I've heard the screams of the vegetables (scream, scream, scream)
Watching their skins being peeled (fates in the stirfry are sealed)
Grated and steamed with no mercy (you fat gourmet slob)
How do you think that feels? (leave them out in the field)
Carrot juice constitutes murder (V8's genocide)
Greenhouses prisons for slaves (yes, your composts are graves)
It's time to stop all this gardening (take up macrame)
Let's call a spade a spade (is a spade, is a spade, is a spade, is a
spade.....- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I hope, for your sake, that you are just having a joke and that you
realize how stupid this is.


The whole topic is a joke.
When someone mentions "vegetarian" and "kill" in the same sentence, I
think of that song, and I laugh.

All ideologies are wrong. It is appropriate to laugh at them.
Someone posts ideological discussion to the education newsgroups, and
I will laugh at them (especially if they crosspost it to the dog and
cat newsgroups)

lojbab- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



I only ever eat vegetarian meat.


Of course! For you'd starve if you were left to grow apples. Loser.



MG



  #10  
Old December 5th 07, 02:20 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,misc.education,alt.philosophy,rec.pets.dogs.misc,rec.pets.cats.misc
Bob LeChevalier
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6
Default Which rights for which animals? (was: problem with this newsgroup)

"pearl" wrote:

"Bob LeChevalier" wrote in message ...

The redefinition of "murder" to include animals is one such
redefinition,


'murder
..
v.tr.
1. To kill (another human) unlawfully.
2. To kill brutally or inhumanly.
..
http://www.answers.com/murder&r=67

"The time will come when men such as I will look upon the
murder of animals as they now look on the murder of men."
- Leonardo da Vinci, artist and scientist.


So what excuses killing vegetables from this definition. What we do
to prepare vegetables is at least as "brutal" as what we do to
animals.

Of course, it is hard to argue that killing plants or animals is
"inhuman" since we've been doing it as a norm since we've existed as a
species.

lojbab
 




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