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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
Yes, that is hypOthyroidism not hypERthyroidism. Not that vets know
how to deal with hyper-t either... But I need the first one... A vet who suffers from thyroid issues himself/herself is also OK. I am getting a little desperate... Please help. I am willing to travel 2 hours from home if I can find a good vet... |
#2
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
On Dec 12, 3:36 pm, Alice wrote:
Yes, that is hypOthyroidism not hypERthyroidism. Not that vets know how to deal with hyper-t either... But I need the first one... A vet who suffers from thyroid issues himself/herself is also OK. I am getting a little desperate... Please help. I am willing to travel 2 hours from home if I can find a good vet... I don't know specifically about hypothyroidism, but two of the top cat clinics in Chicago are the Chicago Cat Clinic on Devon and the Chicago Cat Hospital on Irving. If anyone could treat the condition, I imagine they could. -yngver |
#3
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
I don't know specifically about hypothyroidism, but two of the top cat
clinics in Chicago are the Chicago Cat Clinic on Devon My cat was their patient when dr. Stein was still alive, and then I left for the second clinic you listed (dr. Currigan's clinic). No. They are of no help. I am actually hoping that maybe some excellent dog vet experienced in canine hypo-t (and who goes above and beyond the call of duty while treating it) could be of help? A. |
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
I have just thought of another possibility: a vet who trained in dr.
Plechner's protocol might be of help as well. A. |
#5
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
Alice wrote:
Yes, that is hypOthyroidism not hypERthyroidism. Not that vets know how to deal with hyper-t either... But I need the first one... A vet who suffers from thyroid issues himself/herself is also OK. I am getting a little desperate... Please help. I am willing to travel 2 hours from home if I can find a good vet... I'm not quite sure what the problem is. You're saying there are no vets in Chicago familiar with thyroid diseases? This is hard to believe. Hypothyroidism is not such a difficult disease either to diagnose or to treat, in fact it's rather straightforward. My sister has been hypothyroid (since surgery) for the past 10 years & has been on thyroxine (thyroid hormone) since. She's monitored once a year & has been stable since the first few months of treatment. I used to work in a research Endocrinology lab for a number of years doing various thyroid hormone tests & this was (ouch!) 30 years ago. Actually at that time, we were running the thyoid-screening program on newborn (human) babies for all of the province of Ontario. In animals, diagnosis & testing for hypothyroidism shouldn't be a problem, the symptoms are fairly standard, & treatment is oral medication of thyroid hormone once or twice daily. The dose will start out adjusted to your cat's weight & will be monitored frequently at the beginning by checking the T4 levels. Depending on the results, the dose will continue to be adjusted until stabilized & from then on, your cat should only need to be monitored once or twice a year. Sorry to sound so surprised but if a vet can treat hyperthyroidism, & hyperthyroidism is fairly common in cats (over the years I've had 2 cats that were treated for it), it shouldn't be such a stretch for them to be able to (research if necessary &) treat hypo- Good luck! M. -- Message posted via CatKB.com http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...ealth/200712/1 |
#6
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
Hypothyroidism is not such a difficult disease either to diagnose or to treat,
in fact it's rather straightforward. There is no TSH assay available for cats so it is not easily diagnosed in cats at all. In fact, there is no way to diagnose it properly. There is no rT3 assay for cats either (so there can't be a differentiation made between ESS and secondary hypo-t). TSH (canine assay is used for that) moves immediately downwards the moment a tiny thyroid supplement is given (so it is useless to see if the hypo-t is retreating). T3 assays are not considered for calibration of euthyroid because as one feline specialist (I kid you not) told me, "in cats T4 is the active hormone". And the sun sets in the East. Oh and there is the medieval concept of 'false hypo-t" - don't try to explain that without falling on your face repeatedly - there is no way to do that... doesn't stop the 'feline specialists'. There are few small animal endocrine specialists in this country, none of them in Chicago, none of them in the nearby veterinary schools, where endocrine disorders are treated by internists. There is no endocrinologist who specializes exclusively in cats (except for Peterson, who deals exclusively in feline hypERthyroidism). The closest specialist in Chicago is a ...radiologist, who wrote Ph.D. on how to treat feline hyper-t with I-131 (radioiodine). Hypo-t is considered rare in cats (how would we know without TSH assay?), hyper- t is an epidemic we don't know how to prevent and barely know how to treat (3 meds available, one not used ever, and one with severe side effects; I-131 treatment or surgery not good for renal patients, which is 30% cases because that's how many cats present with CRF at the time they present with hyper-t)... And that is the reality. So sorry to disappoint. Believe me, I am not happy about it myself. But that is what I have to deal with. Hence my post. Oh, and I respectfully disagree that hypo-t is a straightforward disease in humans. Having worked with many thyroid patients and having been cursed with this issue in the family, I can assure you - nothing is easy about thyroid. Nothing. There is a very good forum for thyroid patients on yahoo groups, called simply Thyroid (your sister, even if she thinks she does not need it now, will need it in the future - sick thyroid always finds a way to get you down...), it was started by Mary Shomon, who is probably the most outspoken thyroid patient in USA, and thank God for that... Or we would still be dealing with old human assay for TSH according to which my mom was NOT hypo-t after I-131 treatment, despite severe symptoms. She was also denied treatment (for entire year) like my cat is today. It was the activity of the patients that made the medicine reconsider TSH assay. And it is up for revision again. So, no, nothing is easy about thyroid. Nothing. Alice |
#7
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
On Dec 12, 8:26 pm, "Matthew" wrote:
My cat was just diagnosed with this. I can't believe you can't find as vet to treat this. Good vets are hard to find but my vet is training newbie and one fresh out of vet school new how to deal with it. Matthew, if you had no problem diagnosing it then it is feline hypER-t you're talking about, not hypO-t. There are very few described cases of feline congenital hypO-t, usually they are juvenile. There were no adult cases of hypo-t described in cats until recently. Cats have very stable thyroid. Or 'had', until we started messing with their food. There is some evidence that before hyper-t sets in in cats (when adenoma causing it is not toxic yet, when it is only developing due to presence of varied thyroid disruptors, like soy and toxic chemicals present in food), that at that time cats are hypo-t but... we can't test for that, there is no way to prove this theory... We see the thyroid issue only when thyrotoxicity is already present in the blood serum, i.e., when hypER-t is present. Most adult hypo-t cases present after radioiodine treatment of hypERthyroidism. (In Europe similarly after thyroidectomy, although that can also be associated by hypocalcemia due to damage to the parathyroids.) Also, after I-131 treatment for thyroid cancer. A significant portion of the thyroid is destroyed (the part that was taken over by the toxic adenoma, or whole thyroid in the case of thyroid cancer). And the tissue that is left in the gland is just not enough to produce normal levels of thyroid hormones, that makes pituitary release extra TSH (which we can't see, because we can't measure it), that in turn turns on the entire endocrine system and all sorts of things go out of balance... That is the case with my cat. He underwent I-131 treatment and has at present max 30% of thyroid functioning. Hence hypOthyroidism. A. |
#8
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
Alice wrote:
There is no TSH assay available for cats so it is not easily diagnosed in cats at all. In fact, there is no way to diagnose it properly. There is no rT3 assay for cats either (so there can't be a differentiation made between ESS and secondary hypo-t). TSH (canine assay is used for that) moves immediately downwards the moment a tiny thyroid supplement is given (so it is useless to see if the hypo-t is retreating). T3 assays are not considered for calibration of euthyroid because as one feline specialist (I kid you not) told me, "in cats T4 is the active hormone". And the sun sets in the East. Oh and there is the medieval concept of 'false hypo-t" - don't try to explain that without falling on your face repeatedly - there is no way to do that... doesn't stop the 'feline specialists'. There are few small animal endocrine specialists in this country, none of them in Chicago, none of them in the nearby veterinary schools, where endocrine disorders are treated by internists. There is no endocrinologist who specializes exclusively in cats (except for Peterson, who deals exclusively in feline hypERthyroidism). The closest specialist in Chicago is a ...radiologist, who wrote Ph.D. on how to treat feline hyper-t with I-131 (radioiodine). Hypo-t is considered rare in cats (how would we know without TSH assay?), hyper- t is an epidemic we don't know how to prevent and barely know how to treat (3 meds available, one not used ever, and one with severe side effects; I-131 treatment or surgery not good for renal patients, which is 30% cases because that's how many cats present with CRF at the time they present with hyper-t)... And that is the reality. So sorry to disappoint. Believe me, I am not happy about it myself. But that is what I have to deal with. Hence my post. Oh, and I respectfully disagree that hypo-t is a straightforward disease in humans. Having worked with many thyroid patients and having been cursed with this issue in the family, I can assure you - nothing is easy about thyroid. Nothing. There is a very good forum for thyroid patients on yahoo groups, called simply Thyroid (your sister, even if she thinks she does not need it now, will need it in the future - sick thyroid always finds a way to get you down...), it was started by Mary Shomon, who is probably the most outspoken thyroid patient in USA, and thank God for that... Or we would still be dealing with old human assay for TSH according to which my mom was NOT hypo-t after I-131 treatment, despite severe symptoms. She was also denied treatment (for entire year) like my cat is today. It was the activity of the patients that made the medicine reconsider TSH assay. And it is up for revision again. So, no, nothing is easy about thyroid. Nothing. Alice Have you been on the MSU website & seen what they have to say? specifically points 3 & 4 re the TSH assay & cats? or perhaps spoken to someone there? My not-so-beloved late ex- trained & did post-grad work there many years ago. http://animalhealth.msu.edu/FAQ/Endo...oid_Feline.php Again, as far as human thyroid problems, my sister has been problem-free the past 10 years on thyroxine. My mother, now almost 87 years old had her thyroid removed in 1949, that's more than 50 years ago & has been thyroid problem-free all these years, so I think your statements are somewhat dogmatic & too absolute. Ironic that I used to (hands on) do very large radioimmunoassay runs of TSH, T3, T4 etc - probably 200 patients or more in duplicate each assay in a special research endocrine lab for 4-5 years in the mid-late 70's. Repetitive work, but rewarding given the value of the newborn thyroid screening in detecting hypothyroidism & preventing the subsequent mental retardation. M. -- Message posted via CatKB.com http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...ealth/200712/1 |
#9
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
Here in Florida university of Florida in Gainesville has a vet specialty
schools so does the university of Kentucky. My Rumble has been to both. I would call the local university and see if they can help. The veterinary teaching hospitals in Urbana and Madison (the nearest universities with veterinary schools) don't have small animal endocrinologists. Internists treat hyper-t in cats and then they send the cat to radiology for I-131. The nearest few endos are in ... Cornell (Mark Peterson among them,without whom we would be putting our cats to sleep en mass - hyper-t epidemic, but as I said, he specializes in hyper-t). MSU used to have one but I think no longer... I have been sending my cat's blood test to dr. Dodds in California and getting her opinion, but I don't want to ask her to prescribe drugs based on blood test alone. That would not be fair to her. (I do think that despite her age - or maybe because of it, she is the most reliable veterinary endo in this country, the sheer number of cases she examined exceeds experience of any other endo. And I like her pragmatic approach - treat first, iron out diagnostic difficulties later... the damage that is done to the body by insufficient amount of hormones is happening now, and once it happens, it is done - new processes are in place and God only knows where it will lead... cancer? severe metabolic disorder? organ failure?, the effects will be seen in a year or two but the damage is done NOW, action is paramount.) And its not like I don't know how I want to treat him. I just need a vet who will listen and follow my suggestion. My old vet would, but we had established a close relationship over the years so she knew she could trust me and I knew I could trust her. (I have a lead on a vet who has dealt with multiple hypo-t cases. I'm about to call him... Keep your fingers crossed!) On another note I wonder with the rash of hyperthyroidism being linked to the flame retardant chemicals in our carpet and furniture if we won't start seeing more of hypothyroidism also The chemical in fire retardant is a goitrogen - a thyroid disruptor. Meaning (if it is the cause of hyper-t epidemic) it works the following way: it disrupts the iodine processes in thyroid tissue causing hypO-t (not enough hormones can be produced), the pituitary as a result starts to stimulate thyroid to produce more hormones (to alleviate the deficiency) by producing extra TSH, the thyroid can't do it (as we established) so the tissue swells up (initially inflammation), and something changes within the enlarged cells - we have a new process that is physical, crossover from the chemical realm - and suddenly the thyroid can produce hormones independently from the outside stimulation and it does immediately. And we have toxic thyroid hormone levels in the body. In a sense the hyper-t is the body's resolution to the problem that the thyroid disruptor created (hypo-t). That's one theory anyway and we can't test it because we don't have a reliable fTSH assay. But if it is true, we ARE seeing more hypo-t cases. It is more likely that we will be seeing more hypo-t cases due to increased number of diabetes in cats (this particular disease in an obligatory carnivore is particularly perverse... imo). But the bottom line is: don't feed thyroid disruptors to the cat. And that means don't feed soy. I find it in all commercial foods these days that aren't from the 'top shelf'. It is utterly insane. A. |
#10
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Looking for a vet (in Chicagoland) able to treat felinehypothyroidism
Have you been on the MSU website & seen what they have to say? specifically
points 3 & 4 re the TSH assay & cats? or perhaps spoken to someone there? I know of MSU testing. The canine TSH assay is sensitive in 75% dog cases. Worse than that - in some cases - it can provide false readings (the TSH can be normal and the cat/dog can be still hypo-). The sensitivity of this test is less than the sensitivity of the same test in humans, and in humans that test leaves a lot to be desired. And despite of what MSU says, we don't know how valid it is in cats. We don't test routinely for TSH in cats. The efforts to establish fTSH assay failed repeatedly (studies proved to be inconclusive). If we knew we would be much closer to resolving the epidemic of hyper-t in cats. Diagnostically speaking we can't move forward with any theories that we have on feline autonomous (toxic) adenoma until we can measure what happens to the thyroid prior to its toxicity. But we can't do that - the measurements provided by cTSH in cats are inconclusive. MSU is marketing their product on their website that is why they say what they say. Reality is much different. MSU takes about 2 months to get the sample analyzed by experts and send it back. Meanwhile you wait. (I am not kidding you, my neighbor's dog got sick and they sent the test to MSU, then they got tired of waiting for the results and started supplementation, finally the results came back - negative for hypo-t, but the dog was doing better, lost the bold patches, so they continued supplementation...). This is by no means a good solution. Dr. Dodds proposes simply to try T4 supplementation in iffy cases and see if it works (that makes her, the top endocrinologist in the country, the mother of the science, a pariah in the medical community - when you're her age you stop caring, I love women at that age...). Instead of going thru the nonsense of testing and waiting and at the end having answer that if it is negative may be doubtful. But dr. Dodds is in California and I am in Illinois. And lets remember that my cat's total T4 is still within the normal range. You can't discuss with vets high euthyroid cases because they don't know what that is. Feline specialists don't even know how to read T3 levels in comparison to T4 - I had to teach my old vet that... And she was brilliant... (Too bad she is no longer here in Chicago.) My cat is symptomatic of hypo-t, and the symptoms are dismissed because of his age. The point is - I don't need him diagnosed. It makes sense that with his diminished thyroid he would be hypo-t. He's symptomatic of it. As far as anyone can see he IS hypo-t. The problem is he's a cat, so he gets dismissed. All I need is a vet who will listen to me and treat him. And not treat him with thyroxine because in his case T4 will not be enough. I read recently a paper on diagnostic differentials of hypo-t in cats (btw, the publications on hypo-t in cats are scarce, 5-10 in the entire history of medicine?) in which the author spends half a page on differentiating ESS from secondary hypo-t. It is a fascinating read, because ...well, ESS (euthyroid sick syndrome) is NOT treated in cats. So basically the entire point of the differentiation is to find a way to ...not give the thyroid supplement. (T3 would have to be supplemented for ESS, that's never considered in cats, I have few friends who in ESS supplement T4 and that's only because they begged their vets with tears in their eyes to try it... I kid you not... ESS shows up in many chronic cases and these become routine these days...). Ironic that I used to (hands on) do very large radioimmunoassay runs of TSH, T3, T4 etc - probably 200 patients or more in duplicate each assay in a special research endocrine lab for 4-5 years in the mid-late 70's. In the late 70s human TSH assay had different range than it has now. And it is up for revision again, btw. My mom underwent thyroidectomy as well. It didn't work. Then she had I-131 done. It worked. Then she became hypo with severe symptoms (in medicine hypo-t cases are considered a success in I-131 or surgery treatment... studies showing the rate of hypo-t occurrences are not common and mostly retrospective, which doesn't give a good view). She begged multiple doctors for thyroid supplement. They refused. It lasted a year, meanwhile she developed huge BP levels and increased number of platelets (stroke! - and yes, the differentials were excluded like bone cancer - anyway she's alive today so it wasn't any cancer)... In critical condition she was taken to the hospital where a new and very young endo took a chance and prescribed her the supplement. She got better within days. That's after a year of hell. THis all happened over 30 years ago... Since she lives in Europe and thyroxine supplemnt alone causes her to have bipolar like symptoms she has to import Armour from the US (the big pharmas in EU managed to ban Armour for a synthetic version, sort of like you can't get carbimazole in the States and methimazole in EU... but there is no monopoly in pharma..., no... ). And she is not an exception of the rule. She simply has Grave's. These and similar problems are routine for thyroid autoimmune sufferers. There is some evidence that surgery is better for Grave's... if it works... But in many cases it doesn't. And it is a mute point because in US thyroidectomy is not a preferred method of treatment. Yes, the medicine has made progress in combating thyroid disorders. In 1990s Switzerland implemented mandatory iodine supplementation and pushed the goiter belt out of their territories. It was so impressive that by the 1920 (right after the WWI) all countries in Europe followed. By that time the thyroid surgery was routine (a doc got a Nobel Prize for it, if I remember correctly - he operated on Lenin's wife, btw!). In 1940 we found a way to utilize radioactive compounds equipped with iodine bullets to eradicate the sick thyroid tissue. That does not change the fact that the really good treatment for thyroid disorders continues to elude us. Danish authorities instituted (as the last country in Europe) mandatory supplementation of iodine in 1990s. Well, what followed was an increase in thyroid disorders. Significant increase. We don't understand why. If your family members didn't suffer much from their disorders then you guys are a) lucky or b) they don't tell you how they feel. With hypo-t the first thing that happens is a drop in IQ. And that means diminished awareness. Often enough T4 supplementation alone (keeping the hormones in normal range) does not adjust it. In my mom who has high euthyroid the symptoms were extremely visible. During that year off meds she became aggressive, mean, constantly angry, inarticulate... We called that her Mr. Hyde period. My mom teaches advanced economy (she is a mathematician by training) in a known university. She didn't get there by being inarticulate. As she finally got on Armour (which is not a med for everyone, but one needs that choice!) her erudition returned, and I swear it returned that same day and that's why we noticed... That is why I suggested that you get your sister on line with other hypo-t sufferers. There are lot of symptoms that one does not connect with thyroid and only networking with other patients allows you to see that there may be a connection. If you can connect it - you can treat it. Otherwise you are just going to dismiss it to some other causes, like old age... Similarly to what happens to my cat. A. P.S.: Oprah had a show on thyroid (well, she just mentioned her thyroid issue at the beginning of the show), her online forum had to be reset afterwards. The thyroid patients (older women who watch Oprah) shut it down, upset with the treatment they got. There is more to thyroid than you think. And may you never find out... |
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