More on Soft Food Vs Dry Food

Catnipped just posted a question about her kitty eating too much dry
food and being worried about crystals forming in the urine and
blocking the urethra.

As some of you may or may not remember, I have a cat that had a rather
serious issue of crystals blocking his urethra. I specifically spoke
with my veterinarian about going to a soft food, and he specifically
told me that people who use the Science Diet for cats, for example,
eight years, and run out over a weekend and purchase some inexpensive
substitute just to get through the weekend can have the cat develop
the crystals in the urine in as short a time span as those two days...
And end up bringing the cat into the vet on Monday...

I trust my veterinarian. He is a very good and knowledgable
veterinarian, probably the best in the state. In addition to his
telling me that dry cat food is recommended, quite a few other
veterinarians I have gone to have also recommended dry food, whether
it be Iams or Science Diet.

Someone had posted that the dental issues are a myth... and I believe
that as well... Just like our own teeth, some people have good teeth,
some don't... Not at all like the American Dental Association would
have had us believing when I was growing up.

So here is the question... Does anyone have some good references for
me as far as where I can get to the bottom of this on my own? To make
a reasonable and responsible decision about what to feed my cats?

It can be hard to find reliable information on the Internet... but I
would love to get as much GOOD information on this as I can.

I don't think you will ever get a good answer on this subject. Like you, I
have read that dry is not good....high in carbs, less moisture causing
crystal formation, etc. However, my vet also has told me that feeding dry
is fine. I know others who think feeding a raw diet is best. For every
opinion one way, you will get one that is just the opposite. I think you
just have to take the info that you have and make the best decision for your
cat. I feed my 2 male cats about 50/50 dry/canned. They seem to be doing
well on that.

FYI, I have a friend whose male cat just had a recent bout with crystals and
blockage which required surgery. His vet told him to feed his cat nothing
but canned prescription diet from now on. Another friend has a cat that
suffered from crystals which also required surgery. She feeds her cat
nothing but dry prescription diet and her vet is fine with that...and the
cat has been doing well for over 3 years now. So I guess it really just
depends.....there is no definitive answer.

S.
--
**Visit me and my cats at http://www.island-cats.com/ **
---
"mc" wrote in message
...
Catnipped just posted a question about her kitty eating too much dry
food and being worried about crystals forming in the urine and
blocking the urethra.

As some of you may or may not remember, I have a cat that had a rather
serious issue of crystals blocking his urethra. I specifically spoke
with my veterinarian about going to a soft food, and he specifically
told me that people who use the Science Diet for cats, for example,
eight years, and run out over a weekend and purchase some inexpensive
substitute just to get through the weekend can have the cat develop
the crystals in the urine in as short a time span as those two days...
And end up bringing the cat into the vet on Monday...

I trust my veterinarian. He is a very good and knowledgable
veterinarian, probably the best in the state. In addition to his
telling me that dry cat food is recommended, quite a few other
veterinarians I have gone to have also recommended dry food, whether
it be Iams or Science Diet.

Someone had posted that the dental issues are a myth... and I believe
that as well... Just like our own teeth, some people have good teeth,
some don't... Not at all like the American Dental Association would
have had us believing when I was growing up.

So here is the question... Does anyone have some good references for
me as far as where I can get to the bottom of this on my own? To make
a reasonable and responsible decision about what to feed my cats?

It can be hard to find reliable information on the Internet... but I
would love to get as much GOOD information on this as I can.

Hi from Texas:

I have posted a good reference article about FLUTD on my website
http://www.catnews.org

I FREE feed my 7 cats a high grade dry food and I split two cans of
wet food between them once a day in the mornings.

Hope this article helps

Russell

a href="http://www.catnews.org/
five_cat_food_factors_that_discourage_feline_utd.p hp"Feline Urinary
Tract Disease /a "One of the most common causes of Feline Urinary
Tract Disease (FLUTD) is what your cat eats. A feline diet that is too
high in carbohydrates and magnesium, and low in protein can lead to
FLUTD"read more/aBRBR

"mc" wrote in message
...
Catnipped just posted a question about her kitty eating too much dry
food and being worried about crystals forming in the urine and
blocking the urethra.

As some of you may or may not remember, I have a cat that had a rather
serious issue of crystals blocking his urethra. I specifically spoke
with my veterinarian about going to a soft food, and he specifically
told me that people who use the Science Diet for cats, for example,
eight years, and run out over a weekend and purchase some inexpensive
substitute just to get through the weekend can have the cat develop
the crystals in the urine in as short a time span as those two days...
And end up bringing the cat into the vet on Monday...

I trust my veterinarian. He is a very good and knowledgable
veterinarian, probably the best in the state. In addition to his
telling me that dry cat food is recommended, quite a few other
veterinarians I have gone to have also recommended dry food, whether
it be Iams or Science Diet.

Someone had posted that the dental issues are a myth... and I believe
that as well... Just like our own teeth, some people have good teeth,
some don't... Not at all like the American Dental Association would
have had us believing when I was growing up.

So here is the question... Does anyone have some good references for
me as far as where I can get to the bottom of this on my own? To make
a reasonable and responsible decision about what to feed my cats?

It can be hard to find reliable information on the Internet... but I
would love to get as much GOOD information on this as I can.


http://maxshouse.com/feline_nutritio...i ch_is_reall

Note the references on the bottom of the page, you'll see this is not just
mere opinion.

Here's another- although it applies to feline interrstitial cystitis and the

consumption of dry food:

J Am Vet Med Assoc 1997 Jan 1;210(1):46-50
Clinical evaluation of cats with nonobstructive urinary tract diseases.


Buffington CA, Chew DJ, Kendall MS, Scrivani PV, Thompson SB, Blaisdell JL,
Woodworth BE

Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine,
Ohio State University, Columbus 43210, USA.


OBJECTIVE: To identify the underlying cause of clinical signs in cats with
nonobstructive diseases of the bladder and urethra.

DESIGN: Prospective case series.

"SAMPLE POPULATION: 109 cats examined by the urology service of The Ohio
State University's veterinary teaching hospital because of stranguria,
hematuria, pollakiuria, or urination in inappropriate locations.

PROCEDU History was obtained and a CBC, serum biochemical
analyses, serologic tests for FeLV and feline immunodeficiency virus,
urinalysis, bacterial culture of urine, and contrast radiography or
urethrocystoscopy (females only) were performed.

RESULTS: 16 cats had cystic calculi: 8 had struvite uroliths, 7 had calcium
oxalate uroliths, and 1 had a urolith of unknown composition in conjunction
with an anatomic defect. Anatomic defects, including diverticulae, urethral
strictures, and a malpositioned urethra, were identified in 12 cats. A
urinary tract infection was identified in 1 cat, and neoplasia was diagnosed
in 2. One of the cats with neoplasia also had a struvite urolith. The
remaining 80 cats did not have an anatomic defect, urolith, or tumor. Ten of
these cats also did not have
radiographic orcystoscopic abnormalities and were presumed to have a
behavioral disorder. The remaining 70 cats had radiographic or cystoscopic
abnormalities, and idiopathic cystitis was diagnosed. In 14 of the cats with
idiopathic cystitis, results of a urinalysis were normal. Cats with
idiopathic cystitis were significantly more likely to eat dry food
exclusively (59%) than were cats in the general population (19%).

CLINICAL IMPLICATIONS: Results suggest that idiopathic cystitis occurs
commonly in cats with stranguria, hematuria, pollakiuria, or inappropriate
elimination and is associated with consumption of dry foods. Contrast
radiography or cystoscopy is necessary for differentiating idiopathic
cystitis from behavioral disorders in some cats."

Suddenly, without warning, mc exclaimed (2/10/2008 1:54 AM):

So here is the question... Does anyone have some good references for
me as far as where I can get to the bottom of this on my own? To make
a reasonable and responsible decision about what to feed my cats?

It can be hard to find reliable information on the Internet... but I
would love to get as much GOOD information on this as I can.

All I can tell you is that my cat ate exclusively dry food (Iams,
mostly, was all she'd accept) right up until her first cystitis attack
at 8 years. I added wet to her diet, but she didn't take to it and
mostly refused it. I had better luck getting her to drink more water
but despite that she had two more attacks before I found a method to get
her completely on wet food.

Since being completely on wet food (except her treat ball which has a
mix of Iams senior and Royal Canin urinary), she has not had another attack.

To me, that sounds like dry food was the culprit. But, since cats
physiology is as different as humans', what works for one may work less
well for another.

I think it's not necessarily that they need to eat wet food, as they
need to drink more water; wet food supplies a lot of water.

jmc

jmc wrote:

I think it's not necessarily that they need
to eat wet food, as they need to drink
more water; wet food supplies a lot of
water.

Apparently you didn't read all of Phil's download. Cats that drink a
lot of water still don't get as much water as cats that eat canned food.
You can't force a cat to drink enough water. I rarely see Tiger drink
and I have never seen Amber drink. I do add a little water to the
canned food - just enough to soften it.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Now I am deeply appreciative of all this good information.

But here is another question:

The good doctor says that there are different types of crystals. He
said Maxes crystals can best be helped by diet. He specifically said
that cats with his problem do very well on the food he has prescribed.

Specifically, it is a matter of adjusting the PH in the urine, not how
much water they drink.

Now, as in humans, water can only be beneficial, so I am not disputing
the need for more water... I mean, it makes sense that more water
would help dissolve those crystals, correct? But apparently not all
crystals...???

Note, that despite, up until now anyway, being on a hard food diet,
neither of my cats are over weight - however, there is a bit of a
balancing act that I have to do to keep them just right.

I have never had a problem with a good quality hard food before.

Would I dare to feed my cats something other than a canned cat food
that wasn't a prescription? I don't believe, at this point anyway, I
would dare to just switch to soft food under the assumption that my
cat won't have problems with soft food.

This forum has helped --- I think my next line of action is to find
out exactly the type of crystals Max has and go at my research from
there... Because at this point, I don't have enough information to
make that decision comfortably on my own.

Any help is very much appreciated.

"mc" wrote in message
...
Now I am deeply appreciative of all this good information.

But here is another question:

The good doctor says that there are different types of crystals. He
said Maxes crystals can best be helped by diet. He specifically said
that cats with his problem do very well on the food he has prescribed.

Specifically, it is a matter of adjusting the PH in the urine, not how
much water they drink.

That's not entirely accrurate. Water, minerals, and urine pH are
interrelated and all play a role- but water plays the leading role.

First off- a higher water intake results in a higher urine volume. The urine
concentration of all solutes, including calculogenic crystalloids, depends
on urine volume. The higher the urine volume the lower the specific gravity
and the lower the concentration of crystalloids in the urine. The lower the
concentration of crystalloids the less likely they will aggregate or accrete
into larger crystalline particles.

Second- The higher the water intake the more frequently urination will
occur. More frequent urination results in the elimination of crystalloids
before they could they can accrete into larger crystalline particles that
could eventually form into crystals or uroliths.


Regarding urine pH-- The ingredients in the food have a huge effect on urine
pH-- For example: Sulfur-containing amino acids, phospholipids, and
phosphoproteins- typically found in meat- acidify the urine- whereas plant
material- typically found in higher quantities in dry food- has an
alkalinizing effect-- which can promote the formation of struvite
*regardless* of the amount of magnesium in the diet. Actually, struvite is
a function of urine pH- not magnesium. At urine pH of 6.1- 6.2, struvite
won't form regardless of the amount of magnesium in the urine.

And now for the double whammy: Dry food is less digestible than
equal-quality canned food- which means the cat need to eat more dry food
than canned food to derive the same nutrition. By eating more food the cat
ingests more minerals (e.g., magnesium, phosphorus). In one study a few
years back of the same cats fed dry and then canned food, the urinary
magnesium concentration was three times higher when the cats consumed a dry
food than when they ate a canned diet, even though the magnesium content in
the dry matter of the diets was the same.

So even if the magnesium content of the dry and canned food are the same on
a dry matter basis, the cat still ingests more magnesium. Couple that with
the alkalinizing effect of the plant material in dry food and there you have
the recipe for struvite.



Now, as in humans, water can only be beneficial, so I am not disputing
the need for more water... I mean, it makes sense that more water
would help dissolve those crystals, correct? But apparently not all
crystals...???

No. Water does not dissolve crystals. Acidity dissolves struvite but not
calcium oxalate. Calcium oxalate can't be dissolved.

If you can afford it, switch your cats over to a canned diet- its better for
them and its better for you. The difference in price will be more than
offset by fewer vet vists.

Good luck,

Phil

"jmc" wrote in message
...
To me, that sounds like dry food was the culprit. But, since cats
physiology is as different as humans', what works for one may work less
well for another.


I don't think dry food causes interstitial cystitis- but it probably
exacerbates or aggravates it in cats that that predisposed to it.


Phil

Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (2/11/2008 6:59 AM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
To me, that sounds like dry food was the culprit. But, since cats
physiology is as different as humans', what works for one may work less
well for another.


I don't think dry food causes interstitial cystitis- but it probably
exacerbates or aggravates it in cats that that predisposed to it.


Phil


Phil, let me ask you this:

Can hard water also exacerbate or aggravate, or even cause, cystitis issues?

I remember being told years ago that I should use bottled water for my
cat here, as the water is *very* hard (broke her Drinkwell in just over
6 months) When I was in England, the water was hard as well, but not so
bad and Meep got tap water. And cystitis.

Now *all* her water comes from Britta. So does mine.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on this?

jmc