Mixing cats with and without ocular herpes

A situation has arisen for me in which I've moved into a friend's
apartment with my two 1.5 year old cats (sisters) who do not show any
signs of ocular herpes, and to my knowledge (based on numerous checkups
with a vet) are healthy and disease free. My roommate has a cat that
has in the past shown signs of ocular herpes (red, swollen eye with
dripping goo). Unfortunately, this cat was supposed to be living
elsewhere but will now remain in the same apartment for the time being.
For the past few months the ocular herpes infected cat has not shown
outward signs of the virus, but I'm extremely concerned about letting
my non-infected cats out of their quarantine zone (my room!) and
letting them into contact with this other cat.

My questions:

1) Can my cats contract the herpes virus only if they're in contact
with the other cat while it happens to be shedding the virus (similar
to the manner in which humans pass it on)?

2) Given that the infected cat shows no *outward* signs of the virus,
how likely is this cat to pass ocular herpes on to my cats?

3) I've heard that up to 80% or so of all cats actually have ocular
herpes already, obviously with varying degrees of severity. Is this
true?

4) Will vets test cats for ocular herpes? How expensive is this
procedure?

5) If it turns out that my apparently non-infected cats actually do
have ocular herpes, could they suddenly develop outbreaks (from whence
there was none before) simply by being in contact with a cat whose
ocular herpes symptoms are manifestly worse?

I really need some help with these questions! This issue is suddenly
creating havoc around the apartment, because I'm sick of having to keep
my cats cooped up all the time, and I don't relish the prospect of
letting the cats out in shifts. That's not the way I'd like for them
(and me) to live their lives!

Any other advice out there?

Thanks,
JB

I know of many households where cats that have suffered a severe herpes
related eye infection live with cats that haven't. I've never once heard
of transmission of eye problems to other healthy cats in the household.
The only time the cat might shed the virus would be if it has a
flare-up, and if the owner of the cat keeps it healthy, keeps stress
levels down, and gives the cat a daily, lifetime dose of 250-500 mg of
Lysine, an outbreak should be a very rare occurrence, if at all, and you
could talk precautions at that time. I wouldn't worry about it.

Megan



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joeblow wrote:

snip

My questions:

1) Can my cats contract the herpes virus only if they're in contact
with the other cat while it happens to be shedding the virus (similar
to the manner in which humans pass it on)?

2) Given that the infected cat shows no *outward* signs of the virus,
how likely is this cat to pass ocular herpes on to my cats?

3) I've heard that up to 80% or so of all cats actually have ocular
herpes already, obviously with varying degrees of severity. Is this
true?

4) Will vets test cats for ocular herpes? How expensive is this
procedure?

5) If it turns out that my apparently non-infected cats actually do
have ocular herpes, could they suddenly develop outbreaks (from whence
there was none before) simply by being in contact with a cat whose
ocular herpes symptoms are manifestly worse?

I really need some help with these questions! This issue is suddenly
creating havoc around the apartment, because I'm sick of having to keep
my cats cooped up all the time, and I don't relish the prospect of
letting the cats out in shifts. That's not the way I'd like for them
(and me) to live their lives!

Any other advice out there?

Thanks,
JB

Believe most vets diagnose herpes by counting eyes -- one eye infected
means herpes, two eyes means something else, usually chlamydia in these
parts. Translated, that means that the herpes is too weak to get to
the second eye in the same cat.

I have handled many hundreds of rescues and only once seen a cat with
diagnosed herpes in both eyes. So I'd say your cats are not in real
danger.

It's an aside but a young cat with herpes (and stable leukemia) sleeps
on my pillow. I don't really recommend that to others.

doubleHump

Believe most vets diagnose herpes by counting eyes -- one eye infected
means herpes, two eyes means something else, usually chlamydia in these
parts. Translated, that means that the herpes is too weak to get to
the second eye in the same cat.

I have handled many hundreds of rescues and only once seen a cat with
diagnosed herpes in both eyes. So I'd say your cats are not in real
danger.

It's an aside but a young cat with herpes (and stable leukemia) sleeps
on my pillow. I don't really recommend that to others.

doubleHump

Thanks to all those who have replied thus far. I'd still appreciate it
if anyone who had something to say about this matter weighed in,
because I'm still nervous about it. It'd kill me if I knowingly put my
cats in a situation where they were at risk of catching herpes, and
then they actually got it.

So far the vote is:

Other cats's herpes is not a serious worry for non-infected cats: 2
Other cats's herpes is a serious worry for non-infected cats: 0

JB

"joeblow" wrote in message
oups.com...

A situation has arisen for me in which I've moved into a friend's
apartment with my two 1.5 year old cats (sisters) who do not show any
signs of ocular herpes, and to my knowledge (based on numerous checkups
with a vet) are healthy and disease free. My roommate has a cat that
has in the past shown signs of ocular herpes (red, swollen eye with
dripping goo). Unfortunately, this cat was supposed to be living
elsewhere but will now remain in the same apartment for the time being.
For the past few months the ocular herpes infected cat has not shown
outward signs of the virus, but I'm extremely concerned about letting
my non-infected cats out of their quarantine zone (my room!) and
letting them into contact with this other cat.

My questions:

1) Can my cats contract the herpes virus only if they're in contact
with the other cat while it happens to be shedding the virus (similar
to the manner in which humans pass it on)?


Yes. But there's more- read on.



2) Given that the infected cat shows no *outward* signs of the virus,
how likely is this cat to pass ocular herpes on to my cats?


The other cat is probably a life-long asymptomatic carrier- IOW, displays no
symptoms but can be infectious to other cats. However, - this is very
important- reactivation of a latent infection in an asymptomatic carrier can
be precipitated by stress- *especially* by the addition of *another cat*
into the household. IOW, bringing your cat into your friend's home can
reactivate his cat's FHV-1 infection.



3) I've heard that up to 80% or so of all cats actually have ocular
herpes already, obviously with varying degrees of severity. Is this
true?


Yes. 80% of FHV-1 infected cats become life-long carriers. They usually
carry virus in the trigeminal ganglia (nerve connection in the face) and the
optic nerve and/or nasal turbinates and/or tonsils.



4) Will vets test cats for ocular herpes? How expensive is this
procedure?


It takes conjunctival scrapings and virus isolation- you really don't want
to do this- and its really not necessary since you already know the other
cat was infected and is probably a life-long carrier.



5) If it turns out that my apparently non-infected cats actually do
have ocular herpes, could they suddenly develop outbreaks (from whence
there was none before) simply by being in contact with a cat whose
ocular herpes symptoms are manifestly worse?


Yes. But vaccination should prevent the development of severe disease. See
below.



I really need some help with these questions! This issue is suddenly
creating havoc around the apartment, because I'm sick of having to keep
my cats cooped up all the time, and I don't relish the prospect of
letting the cats out in shifts. That's not the way I'd like for them
(and me) to live their lives!

Any other advice out there?


Get your cats vaccinated with the Heska UltraNasal *bivalent* (FHV/FCV)
vaccine. The UltraNasal confers *rapid* local immunity to the mucosal
points of virus entry-- much more rapid immunity than injectible vaccines
and without the risk. No vaccine can prevent FHV-1 infection- but the
UltraNasal prevents the development of severe disease. As added insurance,
you can dose your cats with l-lysine at 250 mg. b.i.d. Lysine interferes
with viral replication.

If you're as neurotic as I am, you might also want to think about interferon
(rHuIFN-a) - 30 IU/day. If you decide to go with interferon, let me know,
I'll give the instructions for diluting it- very easy. It comes in 3
million unit syringes that you dilute down to 30 IU/ml. Just get a script
from your vet and by the interferon in any pharmacy. One syringe will last
a year after its diluted and costs $50. If you buy the premix from your
vet, it will cost you at least 5x as much for less solution.

Best of luck,

Phil.

Thanks Phil! That's some serious food for thought. I'm disappointed
that you're not in the camp of "it's no big deal, let the cats mix
without worries," but I had a feeling that your point of view is more
likely to be the case. Namely, that there is a non-trivial likelihood
of the ocular herpes spreading to (my) non-infected cats. It doesn't
sound like a high risk if one takes the precautions you mention, but
it's still high enough to make me reconsider whether to allow these
cats to interact at all.

Anyway, much thanks for the information.

"joeblow" wrote in message
oups.com...

Thanks Phil! That's some serious food for thought. I'm disappointed
that you're not in the camp of "it's no big deal, let the cats mix
without worries," but I had a feeling that your point of view is more
likely to be the case. Namely, that there is a non-trivial likelihood
of the ocular herpes spreading to (my) non-infected cats. It doesn't
sound like a high risk if one takes the precautions you mention, but
it's still high enough to make me reconsider whether to allow these
cats to interact at all.

I'm not saying your cats will definitely become infected and symptomatic. I
just wanted to you know what the risks are and the precautions you can take
to minimize the risks.

Herpesvirus infection isn't as serious for an adult as it is for a kitten.
Primary FHV is usually self-limiting inside of 2-3 weeks. However,
following recovery, they could also become asymptomatic carriers and the
infection could reactivate if they're stressed or develop another disease
that stresses the immune system. OR- they could be just fine. Almost every
cat in my shelter has been exposed to FHV- but only a few develop symptoms.
The problem is you don't know which cats will resist infection and which
will become symptomatic. As I said, vaccination will prevent your cats
from developing serious disease, but it won't prevent infection.

Keeping the cats separated might be more stressful for all of them and it
probably wouldn't be practical if the other cat remains there for any length
of time. If you decide to let them mix, at least make sure you have your
cats inoculated with the UltraNasal vaccine. L-lysine would be a good idea,
too.

Phil

I have 11 cats. Two have ocular herpes with discharge. I've been giving
Lysine but they still have flares.

These two have had problems for many years, and no other cat has gotten it.

"joeblow" wrote in message
oups.com...

A situation has arisen for me in which I've moved into a friend's
apartment with my two 1.5 year old cats (sisters) who do not show any
signs of ocular herpes, and to my knowledge (based on numerous checkups
with a vet) are healthy and disease free. My roommate has a cat that
has in the past shown signs of ocular herpes (red, swollen eye with
dripping goo). Unfortunately, this cat was supposed to be living
elsewhere but will now remain in the same apartment for the time being.
For the past few months the ocular herpes infected cat has not shown
outward signs of the virus, but I'm extremely concerned about letting
my non-infected cats out of their quarantine zone (my room!) and
letting them into contact with this other cat.

My questions:

1) Can my cats contract the herpes virus only if they're in contact
with the other cat while it happens to be shedding the virus (similar
to the manner in which humans pass it on)?

2) Given that the infected cat shows no *outward* signs of the virus,
how likely is this cat to pass ocular herpes on to my cats?

3) I've heard that up to 80% or so of all cats actually have ocular
herpes already, obviously with varying degrees of severity. Is this
true?

4) Will vets test cats for ocular herpes? How expensive is this
procedure?

5) If it turns out that my apparently non-infected cats actually do
have ocular herpes, could they suddenly develop outbreaks (from whence
there was none before) simply by being in contact with a cat whose
ocular herpes symptoms are manifestly worse?

I really need some help with these questions! This issue is suddenly
creating havoc around the apartment, because I'm sick of having to keep
my cats cooped up all the time, and I don't relish the prospect of
letting the cats out in shifts. That's not the way I'd like for them
(and me) to live their lives!

Any other advice out there?

Thanks,
JB

"Phil P." wrote in message
...

"joeblow" wrote in message
oups.com...

Thanks Phil! That's some serious food for thought. I'm disappointed
that you're not in the camp of "it's no big deal, let the cats mix
without worries," but I had a feeling that your point of view is more
likely to be the case. Namely, that there is a non-trivial likelihood
of the ocular herpes spreading to (my) non-infected cats. It doesn't
sound like a high risk if one takes the precautions you mention, but
it's still high enough to make me reconsider whether to allow these
cats to interact at all.

I'm not saying your cats will definitely become infected and
symptomatic. I
just wanted to you know what the risks are and the precautions you can
take
to minimize the risks.

Herpesvirus infection isn't as serious for an adult as it is for a
kitten.
Primary FHV is usually self-limiting inside of 2-3 weeks. However,
following recovery, they could also become asymptomatic carriers and the
infection could reactivate if they're stressed or develop another
disease
that stresses the immune system. OR- they could be just fine. Almost
every
cat in my shelter has been exposed to FHV- but only a few develop
symptoms.
The problem is you don't know which cats will resist infection and which
will become symptomatic. As I said, vaccination will prevent your cats
from developing serious disease, but it won't prevent infection.

Keeping the cats separated might be more stressful for all of them and
it
probably wouldn't be practical if the other cat remains there for any
length
of time. If you decide to let them mix, at least make sure you have
your
cats inoculated with the UltraNasal vaccine. L-lysine would be a good
idea,
too.

Phil





Our Koko has herpes,and Kady came to live with us as a stray.....
Keeping the kitten (kady) separate from Koko was next to impossible.....
Koko was had respiratory problems since day one ( a rescue from spca )
and an eye with constant discharge. Even tho Kady was tiny, and not so
well off herself... Kady has shown no problems with the herpes. Koko has
been getting llysine every day for a year........ yes she still has
outbreaks. She was diagnosed 'officially' in July of this year , and is
on interferon orally once/ day and another antiviral eyedrop -
Idoxuridine - 2 to 3 times a day , and this will be for life. At our
website, www.richandlaurie.com I have put up some pics of Koko's eyes.

After this more 'major' outbreak, the opthamologist did say that she
had a scar on her cornea, which is the most 'definite' diagnosis of
having the virus, other than the very expensive dna testing.

Since she has been on the antiviral meds, she still has had one or two
less serious outbreaks. She is in the midst of one now, actually. I
guess I just figured that if Kady got the herpes also, since I already
know how to deal with the disease, and since I already have to get the
med, dosing one cat or two cats really didn't make a huge difference,
other than the pocketbook, of course.

And you are right, it costs about $300 bucks for 3 months of meds....
however, she will not need another course of some of the original meds,
unless she has another more severe outbreaks. If there is green gunk
in the eye discharge, I add an antibiotic drop, but one that does NOT
contain any steroidal meds, even tho they often help eyes to feel
better quickly. It makes the anti viral meds not able to work as well.

I guess we are in a whole different category than 'occasional' stress
related outbreaks of the virus. It seems no matter the 'stress' in
Koko's life, she just almost constantly has some eye irritation and
discharge, and also 'snotiness' in her nose. I can lay in bed at night
and hear her breathe.

laurie
www.richandlaurie.com

"laurie w" wrote in message
m...

Our Koko has herpes,and Kady came to live with us as a stray.....
Keeping the kitten (kady) separate from Koko was next to impossible.....
Koko was had respiratory problems since day one ( a rescue from spca )
and an eye with constant discharge. Even tho Kady was tiny, and not so
well off herself... Kady has shown no problems with the herpes. Koko has
been getting llysine every day for a year........ yes she still has
outbreaks. She was diagnosed 'officially' in July of this year , and is
on interferon orally once/ day and another antiviral eyedrop -
Idoxuridine - 2 to 3 times a day , and this will be for life.


I also prefer Idoxuridine. Trifluridine is more potent than Idoxuridine and
penetrates the cornea much better, but I absolutely do not like the cats'
reaction to it- it seems to *really* irritate their eyes- which in itself is
very stressful for the cat (and for me to watch). Trifluridine also must be
applied more frequently- which again is stressful. So, even though
Trifluridine is techincally better, Idoxuridine is practically better. The
last thing you want to do is stress-out a cat that has herpesvirus.

You may hear some idiots recommending Acyclovir- the drug used to treat
herpes in humans. It doesn't work the same way in cats as it does in
humans. The bioavialibility is is very, very poor in cats and it can cause
leukopenia and anemia. So, I'd definitely avoid it.

At our
website, www.richandlaurie.com I have put up some pics of Koko's eyes.


Her eyes don't look very bad at all. I've seen much worse. The treatment
seems to be working. ;-)



After this more 'major' outbreak, the opthamologist did say that she
had a scar on her cornea, which is the most 'definite' diagnosis of
having the virus, other than the very expensive dna testing.

Since she has been on the antiviral meds, she still has had one or two
less serious outbreaks. She is in the midst of one now, actually. I
guess I just figured that if Kady got the herpes also, since I already
know how to deal with the disease, and since I already have to get the
med, dosing one cat or two cats really didn't make a huge difference,
other than the pocketbook, of course.

And you are right, it costs about $300 bucks for 3 months of meds....
however, she will not need another course of some of the original meds,
unless she has another more severe outbreaks. If there is green gunk
in the eye discharge, I add an antibiotic drop, but one that does NOT
contain any steroidal meds, even tho they often help eyes to feel
better quickly. It makes the anti viral meds not able to work as well.

I guess we are in a whole different category than 'occasional' stress
related outbreaks of the virus. It seems no matter the 'stress' in
Koko's life, she just almost constantly has some eye irritation and
discharge, and also 'snotiness' in her nose. I can lay in bed at night
and hear her breathe.


The new Heska UltraNasal FHV/FCV vaccine does seem to help a lot- the
outbreaks might not be as severe-so, you might want to try it. Mention it
to your vet.

Best of luck,

Phil