Tiger - bad news

Back in December I took Tiger to the vet because she was urinating on
everything a lot. She's had a problem with that pretty much most of her
life, but it got out of control. Her blood work in December showed that she
was just starting to have problems with her kidneys. One of her numbers
were just out of the normal range.

Between then & now she was doing well. Thursday evening I got home late and
she didn't come to the door to greet me. I searched all over for her and
found her sleeping under the kitchen table. She finally came out to briefly
say hello. She didn't want any dinner, just went back under the table to
sleep. Friday morning she seemed a little perkier. She woke up when I did
and she took a few bites of breakfast and drank some. I brought her to the
vet yesterday afternoon and they took more blood & urine. Friday night she
ate some, but not much. She would take a couple of bites and then go lay
down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's having
trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave me
an appetite stimulant yesterday but she's only had it twice so far and I'm
not sure if it's doing anything. I also give her sub-q fluids at home, and
the vet said to do it every day now.

I had been closing my bedroom door at all times after she started peeing
late last year but I left it open last night. This morning she woke me up
meowing, she had made it up onto the little cat condo by my bed. I picked
her up and she cuddled next to me which was nice, since she had been keeping
out of sight for the most part. She also followed me into the bathroom when
I went in and used the box.

The vet just called me with her blood test results:
In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.
In December, her white blood cell count was normal and now it's high,
25,000. Her red blood cell count was normal in December, and now it's low
(14%).

He said that she's very anemic and her cell counts could be because of her
kidneys or it could be cancer. He said the white blood cell count could be
in infection or could also be caused by cancer. In October 2004, Tiger had
a mammary tumor removed that was benign.

I'm going to pick up an antibiotic for her tomorrow, Clavamox.

The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to cancer
is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.

I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards are
both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know she
doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love her
dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to be
done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
faster?

I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
Monday to make a decision.

--
Liz

In article ,
says...
Back in December I took Tiger to the vet because she was urinating on
everything a lot. She's had a problem with that pretty much most of her
life, but it got out of control. Her blood work in December showed that she
was just starting to have problems with her kidneys. One of her numbers
were just out of the normal range.

Between then & now she was doing well. Thursday evening I got home late and
she didn't come to the door to greet me. I searched all over for her and
found her sleeping under the kitchen table. She finally came out to briefly
say hello. She didn't want any dinner, just went back under the table to
sleep. Friday morning she seemed a little perkier. She woke up when I did
and she took a few bites of breakfast and drank some. I brought her to the
vet yesterday afternoon and they took more blood & urine. Friday night she
ate some, but not much. She would take a couple of bites and then go lay
down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's having
trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave me
an appetite stimulant yesterday but she's only had it twice so far and I'm
not sure if it's doing anything. I also give her sub-q fluids at home, and
the vet said to do it every day now.

I had been closing my bedroom door at all times after she started peeing
late last year but I left it open last night. This morning she woke me up
meowing, she had made it up onto the little cat condo by my bed. I picked
her up and she cuddled next to me which was nice, since she had been keeping
out of sight for the most part. She also followed me into the bathroom when
I went in and used the box.

The vet just called me with her blood test results:
In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.
In December, her white blood cell count was normal and now it's high,
25,000. Her red blood cell count was normal in December, and now it's low
(14%).

He said that she's very anemic and her cell counts could be because of her
kidneys or it could be cancer. He said the white blood cell count could be
in infection or could also be caused by cancer. In October 2004, Tiger had
a mammary tumor removed that was benign.

I'm going to pick up an antibiotic for her tomorrow, Clavamox.

The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to cancer
is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.

I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards are
both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know she
doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love her
dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to be
done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
faster?

I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
Monday to make a decision.

I guess I'm fortunate to have a vet that will work with me on the money
part. Modern vets do pretty much everything by computer these days so
chances are they run their own G/L and POS packages on their computers.

I know mine does.

I've also got two elderly cats. Randy is the eldest and also my first
cat - he has a small mass in his abdomen but blood panels are normal.
But we check him out ever 3 months or so and that adds up to about $200
per visit.

Emily is the next eldest and the second cat I ever had. She needs some
dental work so next month she gets that.

They were great when they were younger - Once a years in for shots and
check up at $60 or so.

In the last year I've spent $1,400 on vet bills, but that's because
Cosimo was a very sick boy and needed a two day stay, blood panels, x-
rays, fluids, catheterization, etc.

Hang in there.

Elizabeth Blake wrote:

I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards are
both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know she
doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love her
dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to be
done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
faster?

I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
Monday to make a decision.

It's a very difficult decision. I understand about the money being an
issue even though I always feel badly about that. If they were human,
there wouldn't be a money issue even if they didn't have
insurance...there's usually a workaround for a human. But vets want
their money upfront, for the most part. Yes, they can do chemo on cats
and, depending on what sort of cancer it is, it can be successful. I
don't think I would do chemo on any of the cats I have or have had.
They all hate/hated the vet too much and are/were too scared and I just
don't think I would, although it's possible, I guess.

She could just be having a CRF crash that can improve with IV fluids
and some special care. It's hard to know what to do. If you know you
wouldn't do chemo or any treatment on her even if she has cancer, then
maybe you don't need to know. Maybe you should just treat her for the
CRF and see how it goes. But, on the other hand, at a later date, you
might wish you had known just what it was.

Good luck on your decision and I hope she bounces back. I will say
that hospitalization is not always the answer. Sometimes it's best for
them to stay at home.

Candace

On Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:27:00 -0500, Elizabeth Blake wrote:

Back in December I took Tiger to the vet because she was urinating on
everything a lot. She's had a problem with that pretty much most of her
life, but it got out of control. Her blood work in December showed that she
was just starting to have problems with her kidneys. One of her numbers
were just out of the normal range.

Between then & now she was doing well. Thursday evening I got home late and
she didn't come to the door to greet me. I searched all over for her and
found her sleeping under the kitchen table. She finally came out to briefly
say hello. She didn't want any dinner, just went back under the table to
sleep. Friday morning she seemed a little perkier. She woke up when I did
and she took a few bites of breakfast and drank some. I brought her to the
vet yesterday afternoon and they took more blood & urine. Friday night she
ate some, but not much. She would take a couple of bites and then go lay
down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's having
trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave me
an appetite stimulant yesterday but she's only had it twice so far and I'm
not sure if it's doing anything. I also give her sub-q fluids at home, and
the vet said to do it every day now.

I had been closing my bedroom door at all times after she started peeing
late last year but I left it open last night. This morning she woke me up
meowing, she had made it up onto the little cat condo by my bed. I picked
her up and she cuddled next to me which was nice, since she had been keeping
out of sight for the most part. She also followed me into the bathroom when
I went in and used the box.

The vet just called me with her blood test results:
In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.
In December, her white blood cell count was normal and now it's high,
25,000. Her red blood cell count was normal in December, and now it's low
(14%).

He said that she's very anemic and her cell counts could be because of her
kidneys or it could be cancer. He said the white blood cell count could be
in infection or could also be caused by cancer. In October 2004, Tiger had
a mammary tumor removed that was benign.

I'm going to pick up an antibiotic for her tomorrow, Clavamox.

The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to cancer
is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.

I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards are
both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know she
doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two days
of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love her
dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to be
done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
faster?

I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
Monday to make a decision.


Something to consider: Does she enjoy life? Or is she suffering so much
that she cannot enjoy life? Best wishes. MLB

Candace wrote:

It's hard to know what to do. If you know you
wouldn't do chemo or any treatment on her even if she has cancer, then
maybe you don't need to know. Maybe you should just treat her for the
CRF and see how it goes. But, on the other hand, at a later date, you
might wish you had known just what it was.


FWIW, when Dudley got sick last year, DH and I agreed that we would not
do anything very invasive with him. He had an ultrasound that showed
some thickening of tissue (stomach i think? can't even remember right
now) and to find out if it was cancerous tissue, he would have needed a
surgical biopsy. We had no intention of any surgeries for him and
*definitely* no chemo, etc. Dudley is deaf and blind and going on 14.
Generally 14 is not *that* old, but I'd say he is an "old 14".

He is a TERRRRRRRRIBLE vet patient! (understandably so!) Being
hospitalized is absolutely traumatic for him. He needs to be home!

Right now, he is doing very well and curled up on a little foot stool a
few feet away from me asleep.

He might have cancer, he might not. He does have pancreatitis and when
he has flare ups of course we get him treated. But that is all we feel
comfortable doing. In other words, our main desire is to keep our guy as
comfy and happy as we can...and part of that is allowing him to live out
his time at home where he feels safe and secure.

I don't konw what the future brings, but for now, Dudley is still
enjoying a great quality of life all things considered.

I'm not sure this was particularly helpful...but just know that lots of
us sure understand how hard it is in these situations and knowing what
to do is not always so easy. Follow your heart and gut instinct.

good luck!
pam

"T" wrote in message
. ..
In article ,
says...

I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards
are
both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know
she
doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two
days
of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love
her
dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to
be
done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do
they
put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
faster?

I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
Monday to make a decision.

I guess I'm fortunate to have a vet that will work with me on the money
part. Modern vets do pretty much everything by computer these days so
chances are they run their own G/L and POS packages on their computers.

I know mine does.

I've also got two elderly cats. Randy is the eldest and also my first
cat - he has a small mass in his abdomen but blood panels are normal.
But we check him out ever 3 months or so and that adds up to about $200
per visit.

Emily is the next eldest and the second cat I ever had. She needs some
dental work so next month she gets that.

They were great when they were younger - Once a years in for shots and
check up at $60 or so.

In the last year I've spent $1,400 on vet bills, but that's because
Cosimo was a very sick boy and needed a two day stay, blood panels, x-
rays, fluids, catheterization, etc.

Hang in there.

Tiger has been to the vet a lot over the years, mostly for her ears which
tend to get full of thick waxy brown gunk. She then starts scratching and
tearing her head up because of it. Those were cleaned out again when she
went in December and they're still looking pretty good. Otto (6.5 years
old) needs his teeth cleaned, but he'll have to wait. He's gone for a few
eye infections the first two years I had him.

None of the vets here work on payment plans. They want full payment up
front. When Tiger had her tumor removed in 2004 it came out to just under
$1,000. At the time I had more than half to pay in cash and the rest went
on a credit card. At work we have two cats and last year Harriet (8.5 years
old) went to the vet 5 times (I think) in two months and racked up about
$1,000 in bills. She's now on medication, $80/month, but my boss pays for
her care. So far Stinky, the other work cat (7.5 years old) is the only one
who has never had to go for anything other than a routine exam/shots (and
spaying, of course).

--
Liz

"Candace" wrote in message
ups.com...
Elizabeth Blake wrote:

I'm torn about what to do. I am very short on money and my credit cards
are
both mostly maxed out. Tiger will be 16 years old next month, so I know
she
doesn't have a long life ahead of her if cancer is detected and treated.
Yesterday's bill was $485. The ultrasound will be another $330. Two
days
of hospitalization will be around $250. Tiger's my first cat and I love
her
dearly. If she was younger, I wouldn't hesitate to do whatever needed to
be
done. But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do
they
put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even
faster?

I've got to think it about it over the rest of the weekend and call them
Monday to make a decision.

It's a very difficult decision. I understand about the money being an
issue even though I always feel badly about that. If they were human,
there wouldn't be a money issue even if they didn't have
insurance...there's usually a workaround for a human. But vets want
their money upfront, for the most part. Yes, they can do chemo on cats
and, depending on what sort of cancer it is, it can be successful. I
don't think I would do chemo on any of the cats I have or have had.
They all hate/hated the vet too much and are/were too scared and I just
don't think I would, although it's possible, I guess.

Tiger is the sweetest, most docile cat but in the last 2 years she's been
showing her displeasure every time I take her to the vet. In the past she
would just huddle in a tight ball and let them do whatever needed to be
done. Now she growls and hisses and struggles - very unlike her. She's
very good when I give her fluids at home. She might try to stand up but
mostly she's very cooperative.

She could just be having a CRF crash that can improve with IV fluids
and some special care. It's hard to know what to do. If you know you
wouldn't do chemo or any treatment on her even if she has cancer, then
maybe you don't need to know. Maybe you should just treat her for the
CRF and see how it goes. But, on the other hand, at a later date, you
might wish you had known just what it was.

Good luck on your decision and I hope she bounces back. I will say
that hospitalization is not always the answer. Sometimes it's best for
them to stay at home.

Candace

I'm not sure sure about the chemo. Besides the money issue, I just wonder
if it would be worth it to put a sick 16 year old cat through that. When
she was at the vet yesterday, he suggested leaving her for a night or two
for fluids. Only fluids were mentioned, since her blood was just drawn and
we didn't know what the results would be. When he asked me if I wanted to
leave her, I told him that she would be happier at home. Since she managed
to get up on the small cat condo in my bedroom and wanted to cuddle with me
on the bed, I'm glad I didn't leave her. She's been moving slowly and is a
little unsteady on her feet so I was amazed she got up as high as she did.

--
Liz

"mlbriggs" wrote in message
news

Something to consider: Does she enjoy life? Or is she suffering so much
that she cannot enjoy life? Best wishes. MLB

Mostly she seems to enjoy hiding under the end table in the living room and
sleeping. She's not coming over to me looking for attention, although this
morning she did almost make it on the bed by herself and wanted to cuddle
next to me. She's been getting up frequently to go to the kitchen, maybe to
take a bite of food or a drink, then she goes right back to the living room.
No stopping next to my desk in hopes she'll get lap time. Up until
Thursday, she would have preferred to spend her entire day in my lap and now
when I hold her, she just wants to get down and go back under her table
after just a few minutes. The radiator is right there so she just might be
looking for warmth. That was her favorite sleeping spot a couple of years
ago.

She did get up when she heard me coming in the door tonight, which made me
very happy. She also seems very eager to eat at first but doesn't actually
eat much when I put the food down. She's been getting 1/4 tablet of
cyproheptadine 30 minutes before each meal but it doesn't seem to help her
appetite. She is still enthusiastic about treats, though.

--
Liz

down again, but she kept getting up to go back to the kitchen. She's having
trouble walking, she just seems weak, or like a drunk. Oh, the vet gave me

This could be a sign of low potassium or high phosphorus. I trust the vet
did a full blood profile?

The vet just called me with her blood test results:
In December, her creatinine (sp?) was 2.4 and now it's 3.6. He said that
shows she's still in the mild-moderate stage of kidney disease.

Did he do a urine test too. That helps determine at which stage she's at too.
A crf cat will have low urine specific gravity.

Here are some excellent helpful crf sites:

http://www.felinecrf.com/
http://www.felinecrf.org/ - there is a good section in here about anemia

The vet said the only way to know if her numbers are abnormal due to cancer
is to do an abdominal ultrasound (she had
x-rays yesterday, those were fine). He also recommended leaving her for a
couple of nights to get IV fluids and IV antibiotics.
But, she's 16 with failing kidneys. If cancer is detected, do they
put cats through chemo? I don't know if she'd be able to handle it. And
what about her kidneys, would any cancer treatment make them worse even

I have no experience with cancer so I can't give you any advice about that.
But if it turns out to be just crf, that is treatable and she could still
lives for years with it.


Anna

--
Message posted via CatKB.com
http://www.catkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...ealth/200603/1

Elizabeth Blake wrote:
She's been moving slowly and is a
little unsteady on her feet so I was amazed she got up as high as she did.

Hi Liz,
I'm so sorry to hear about Tiger. I know how difficult it is having an
elderly beloved kitty with CRF.
Was she having the unsteadiness problem before or after the appetite
stimulant? If he's giving her Periactin, it can make the cat act
drugged. That's what we used with my CRF cat and it did have that
effect on her. Also, I'm curious about the antibiotics. Does she have
an infection she's being treated for? I was just wondering why the vet
prescribed them.

Personally, it if were my cat, I would do everything I could to treat
her as long as the quality of her life was good. I don't think I would
put the cat through chemo or anything invasive if she were mine. It's
an extremely difficult decision I know. Best wishes with whatever you
decide and I hope your Tiger feels better soon.

Lauren