Very Very Hard Question--Owner's Quality of Life

I'm posting with a problem that's caused so much pain for me I don't
know how I've managed these past few years. I have a 14+ year old
former feral I inherited when she was already older than 10 and whom I
tried to domesticate. I succeeded partly, but only partly.

My little angel never got over a need to be outside. She won't let me
or anyone hold her. At the vet's, she acts like a perfect old lady.
Everyone says how docile and sweet she is. And she IS.

But ever since the day I started taking care of her I have denied the
continence (urinary) issues that have basically prevented me from
holding down a full-time job. I'm also a caretaker of an elderly
family member, so not going out to work was something I told myself was
something I didn't have to worry about. (Yeah, that's how wild I am
about my best friend. I don't need to hear it's crazy; I know it is.)

Sadly, my caretaking days may be over soon for the family member. I
won't only have to relocate but find work; and the hours upon hours of
hauling carpets out to wash with the (free) water from a private well,
hauling upholstered furniture out to wash, too, in the summer, caulking
rooms like Fort Knox so carpet won't be "really necessary" in my
northern US location (like heck it isn't really necessary)...
Vacuuming and vacuuming and mopping and mopping...

I know I'm crazy. I am a crazy person posting here, so consider this a
crazy person alert. I have been told by more than one veterinarian
that urinary incontinence is absolutely a legitimate reason to put down
a pet, but I can't do it. I don't even know why I'm posting here,
except to ask (or beg, really) for responses from any poor soul who has
ever found him/herself in this "I know my quality of life is shot to
hell, but I can't give up my cat" nightmare.

For the record-- I donate to No-Kill shelters. I donate to any
shelter. I subscribe to the belief that it's wrong to get rid of a pet
because he/she's an inconvenience. I just don't know what to do.

Thank you for listening.

Have you ruled out a urinary tract infection? There is no medical
[curable] condition causing this? Perhaps a second opinion from another
vet?

wrote:
I'm posting with a problem that's caused so much pain for me I don't
know how I've managed these past few years. I have a 14+ year old
former feral I inherited when she was already older than 10 and whom I
tried to domesticate. I succeeded partly, but only partly.

My little angel never got over a need to be outside. She won't let me
or anyone hold her. At the vet's, she acts like a perfect old lady.
Everyone says how docile and sweet she is. And she IS.

But ever since the day I started taking care of her I have denied the
continence (urinary) issues that have basically prevented me from
holding down a full-time job. I'm also a caretaker of an elderly
family member, so not going out to work was something I told myself was
something I didn't have to worry about. (Yeah, that's how wild I am
about my best friend. I don't need to hear it's crazy; I know it is.)

Sadly, my caretaking days may be over soon for the family member. I
won't only have to relocate but find work; and the hours upon hours of
hauling carpets out to wash with the (free) water from a private well,
hauling upholstered furniture out to wash, too, in the summer, caulking
rooms like Fort Knox so carpet won't be "really necessary" in my
northern US location (like heck it isn't really necessary)...
Vacuuming and vacuuming and mopping and mopping...

I know I'm crazy. I am a crazy person posting here, so consider this a
crazy person alert. I have been told by more than one veterinarian
that urinary incontinence is absolutely a legitimate reason to put down
a pet, but I can't do it. I don't even know why I'm posting here,
except to ask (or beg, really) for responses from any poor soul who has
ever found him/herself in this "I know my quality of life is shot to
hell, but I can't give up my cat" nightmare.

For the record-- I donate to No-Kill shelters. I donate to any
shelter. I subscribe to the belief that it's wrong to get rid of a pet
because he/she's an inconvenience. I just don't know what to do.

Thank you for listening.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm posting with a problem that's caused so much pain for me I don't know
how I've managed these past few years. I have a 14+ year old former
feral I inherited when she was already older than 10 ... But ever since
the day I started taking care of her I have denied the continence
(urinary) issues .... I have been told by more than one veterinarian
that urinary incontinence is absolutely a legitimate reason to put down a
pet, but I can't do it. ... I subscribe to the belief that it's wrong to
get rid of a pet
because he/she's an inconvenience. I just don't know what to do.
Thank you for listening.

Hello,
I don't think you are crazy at all. I hope you will find the guidance you
need to find a solution for the problem with your cat and that your pending
lifestyle change and move will go as smoothly as possible.

Be aware that you will not receive a medical diagnosis over the Internet,
but you can get a lot of useful information here. Piece it together, and
you'll probably get some idea on a direction to take.

It would be helpful if you would please provide some more information about
your cat.

First, what have you already done to find the cause of the problem?

You say that several vets have advised you that "urinary incontinence is
absolutely a legitimate reason to put down a pet." To your credit, you say
that you can't do that.

The question is, what did those vets say about the cause of your cat's
incontinence? If they said it was medical, how did they treat it? How long
ago was this?

The bottom line here is that you really need a current senior medical
checkup of your cat. The vet may find a treatable medical condition. Be
sure to get a copy of the test results. Ask the vet for an explanation of
what the numbers mean. Be prepared to take notes to help you remember. You
might also try posting the test results on this newsgroup.

Has the cat been spayed? It is rare, but some female cats will spray.

In addition to finding out the cat's medical condition, you need to look at
the current environment and the cat's past urinary behavior.

Did the cat come to you with this problem? Has she ever used a litter box,
either before or after you got her?

Does she have any physical conditions that might make it difficult for her
to get into the box?

What kind of box do you have for her?
Is it covered or open?
Where is it located?
Is it easily accessible?
What kinds of activities go on in the area?
What kind of litter are you using?
If she uses the box at all, how often is in cleaned?
Do you have other pets that might interrupt her?
Does she have more than one box?

The situation you describe is complicated, but don't give up hope.

Annie

Annie, thanks so much for taking the time to reply.

"Lord Jub Jub" (my old lady's pseudonym!) has been to two very
different kinds of vets in her life. She was spayed in 1994 by a very
"activist"-style barn vet, who for example doesn't believe in ever
tranquilizing animals. (Jub Jub will not let me or anyone ever get
closer to her than petting, so pilling her is out of the question,
which is why for a while I considered liquid tranquilizers in order to
solve, say, constipation problems.) This vet says "She's old. She has
kidney problems. Old cats have kidney problems just like old people.
Live with it."

The other, younger, female vet has suggested situational changes, i.e.,
not setting out quite as many water bowls as I do, and restricting Old
Mother Jubs to parts of the house where carpeting isn't an issue. (I
constructed not one but two heated cat houses over the years, because
in earlier days, Jub lived in the cellar of the home--which is exactly
where I don't want to restrict her now that she's old.)

Because of the pilling issue, I only opt for yearly shots and physical
exams, because I couldn't stand the pain of being told she has, say,
thyroid disease, and then knowing I couldn't give her the medication
she needs. I've tried to learn the "grab technique" that makes her so
docile at the vet's, but for some reason, it doesn't work. (And in any
event, she'd still bite me if I tried to open her mouth.)

This second, young vet is much more open to the idea that owners are
animals too and believes incontinence issues are the most painful any
pet owner has to face, because they're subjective.

Actually, yesterday evening, someone suggested seeing about renting or
buying an old, cheap house, uncarpeted, for *myself,* where concerns
about future owners and/or carpet is not an issue. This is extreme, I
realize, but if I have a run-down old home whose future is not a
concern for me, I will be able to give exercise room, freedom, and
hopefully at least a couple more years to the creature who has been my
closest, most cherished friend. In other words, if you can't bring
beat 'em, join 'em, and turn your whole house into an INTENTIONAL
"cat-house." (I don't mean a neglected home, of course. I happen to
be an obsessive-compulsive cleaner.)

Anyway, Annie, thanks very much. I'll keep the group updated.

wrote:
Annie, thanks so much for taking the time to reply.


Ok, more questions: is the cat indescriminantly peeing everyhwere or
leaking?

-L.

On Nov 2, 12:26 pm, "-L." wrote:

Ok, more questions: is the cat indescriminantly peeing everyhwere or
leaking?

Excellent question. After a very dominant and aggressive male feral
began wandering the 'hood last spring (we live in the forest!), "Maw"
began spraying. By the early summer, when the male was joined by
another, pregnant, feral female (since gone), Maw was
peeing...defensively (?) in the cellar and elsewhere.

She has always leaked, but this past year it seems unquestionable that
what may begin as a defensive spray turns into a pee.

Thanks for asking!

wrote in message
ups.com...
.... Because of the pilling issue, I only opt for yearly shots and physical
exams, because I couldn't stand the pain of being told she has, say,
thyroid disease, and then knowing I couldn't give her the medication
she needs. I've tried to learn the "grab technique" that makes her so
docile at the vet's, but for some reason, it doesn't work. (And in any
event, she'd still bite me if I tried to open her mouth.)

This second, young vet is much more open to the idea that owners are
animals too and believes incontinence issues are the most painful any
pet owner has to face, because they're subjective.

... This is extreme, I realize, but if I have a run-down old home whose
future is not a
concern for me, I will be able to give exercise room, freedom, and
hopefully at least a couple more years to the creature who has been my
closest, most cherished friend. In other words, if you can't bring
beat 'em, join 'em, and turn your whole house into an INTENTIONAL
"cat-house." (I don't mean a neglected home, of course. I happen to
be an obsessive-compulsive cleaner.)
....
Hi,
By the way, do you have a name?

I hope you will stay as far away as possible from the first vet, who
diagnosed kidney disease and refused to treat it. Did he just pull that
diagnosis out of the air, or did he actually base it on some kind of tests?

The second vet has a better attitude, but I don't think restricting the
cat's access to water is a good idea. It could actually be harmful if there
is an underlying medical condition. Did she do any tests to try to determine
if there is a medical condition?

It is absolutely crucial that the cat gets a complete physical, including
blood and urine evaluation. You need a vet who will look for and discover
or rule out an underlying medical cause of the urinary incontinence. Maybe
all she needs is a change of diet. But, you won't know until you get the
tests results.

As for handling the cat for pilling, I understand your problem. Our cat,
Cinder, grows long claws (sort of like fishhooks). She will absolutely not
tolerate having us trim them. However, she is fine when we take her in
every few months to the vet. (Thank goodness.)

I haven't had to pill Rosie, our former feral, yet. When we trapped her,
she had a tapeworm. I was so grateful that she ate the pill with her food,
because I couldn't touch her at all. Now, years later, she got an abscess on
her chin. The medicine comes in either pill or liquid form. We got the
liquid. Rosie absolutely would not let me put the dropper in her mouth, but
she will lap up the medicine when I mix it with some food. Another bullet
dodged. But, if I thought she had a medical problem, I wouldn't put off
taking her to the vet on the chance that I might have to pill her.

Maybe the problem is as simple as the location of the litter box, or you
need to add a litter box, or change the litter. Maybe it is a combination of
issues. But, you won't know without the help of a vet who will base the
diagnosis and treatment, if necessary, on the results of medical tests.

Wouldn't it be better to find out there is a treatable condition while it
still is treatable? What if you put off the tests and your cat has a
problem that is treatable without pills? Would you rather let this cat and
yourself have a chance to live the rest of her life without suffering with
something that you might be able to treat and solve the problem?

Anyway, if your cat needs medication, it might be available in a liquid
form. A compounding pharmacy could even make it taste like tuna fish!

If you go for the old, cheap house, be sure to check out the neighborhood.
You will want it to be safe. I think that your "cat-house" concept is
great, even if your cat did not have the incontinence problem. Maybe, with
some detective work, you'll find the cause and solution of the problem and
you'll both be happy. And, you'll get a better return on your investment
when you sell the place.

Annie

It is absolutely crucial that the cat gets a complete physical, including
blood and urine evaluation. You need a vet who will look for and discover
or rule out an underlying medical cause of the urinary incontinence. Maybe
all she needs is a change of diet. But, you won't know until you get the
tests results.

[snip]

Wouldn't it be better to find out there is a treatable condition while it
still is treatable? What if you put off the tests and your cat has a
problem that is treatable without pills? Would you rather let this cat and
yourself have a chance to live the rest of her life without suffering with
something that you might be able to treat and solve the problem?

Anyway, if your cat needs medication, it might be available in a liquid
form. A compounding pharmacy could even make it taste like tuna fish!

I agree with what Annie is saying. At your cat's age, a complete
physical is a good idea. She could have something that is easy to
treat, but you won't know until she is evaluated.

As for any medication, in addition to adding flavors, some medications
(like those for hyperthryoidism) can be made into a cream that's
applied to the inside of the ear. There is also something called Pill
Pockets, where you place the pill inside a "treat" and feed. They have
been a life saver for me. see: www.pillpockets.com

Rene

wrote:
On Nov 2, 12:26 pm, "-L." wrote:

Ok, more questions: is the cat indescriminantly peeing everyhwere or
leaking?

Excellent question. After a very dominant and aggressive male feral
began wandering the 'hood last spring (we live in the forest!), "Maw"
began spraying. By the early summer, when the male was joined by
another, pregnant, feral female (since gone), Maw was
peeing...defensively (?) in the cellar and elsewhere.

She has always leaked, but this past year it seems unquestionable that
what may begin as a defensive spray turns into a pee.

Thanks for asking!

Assuming there are no physical reasons for her problems, and that it is
behavioral, I would be very tempted to make her a home in a garage or
shed where she has access to the outdoors, and lock her in at night.
She is obviously unhappy about something if she is continually peeing
everywhere. If she's previously been an indoor/outdoor cat she's
probably unhappy about being indoors all the time. At some point, you
have to say enough is enough.

-L.

wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm posting with a problem that's caused so much pain for me I don't
know how I've managed these past few years. I have a 14+ year old
former feral I inherited when she was already older than 10 and whom I
tried to domesticate. I succeeded partly, but only partly.

My little angel never got over a need to be outside. She won't let me
or anyone hold her. At the vet's, she acts like a perfect old lady.
Everyone says how docile and sweet she is. And she IS.

But ever since the day I started taking care of her I have denied the
continence (urinary) issues that have basically prevented me from
holding down a full-time job. I'm also a caretaker of an elderly
family member, so not going out to work was something I told myself was
something I didn't have to worry about. (Yeah, that's how wild I am
about my best friend. I don't need to hear it's crazy; I know it is.)

Sadly, my caretaking days may be over soon for the family member. I
won't only have to relocate but find work; and the hours upon hours of
hauling carpets out to wash with the (free) water from a private well,
hauling upholstered furniture out to wash, too, in the summer, caulking
rooms like Fort Knox so carpet won't be "really necessary" in my
northern US location (like heck it isn't really necessary)...
Vacuuming and vacuuming and mopping and mopping...

I know I'm crazy. I am a crazy person posting here, so consider this a
crazy person alert. I have been told by more than one veterinarian
that urinary incontinence is absolutely a legitimate reason to put down
a pet, but I can't do it. I don't even know why I'm posting here,
except to ask (or beg, really) for responses from any poor soul who has
ever found him/herself in this "I know my quality of life is shot to
hell, but I can't give up my cat" nightmare.

For the record-- I donate to No-Kill shelters. I donate to any
shelter. I subscribe to the belief that it's wrong to get rid of a pet
because he/she's an inconvenience. I just don't know what to do.

Thank you for listening.

I think it's important for you to get a good evaluation for your cat and
proceed from there. At 14, your cat could still have a number of good years
left (my first cat, a former feral, lived to be almost 20). Dump the first
vet - with an attitude like that, your cat would have little chance of
survival. That's the same attitude that has caused many elderly *people* to
suffer needlessly when medical intervention could have greatly increased the
quality of their lives.

My sister's cat is her beloved pet, but life in her home was becoming almost
unbearable because he constantly peed and sprayed outside the litter box.
This went on for a period of more than 3 years. The entire house reeked, and
she finally locked him in a basement room during the daytime while she was
at work. That was much better than it sounds because it was a room with
paneled walls, TV, a sofa, cat toys, and exercise equipment. She would bring
him upstairs in the evening but had to watch him constantly. This simply was
not a good situation either for her or for her cat (who was then deprived of
the companionship of her other cats for most of the day), and she was
desperate. She took him to several vets, including a holistic vet, and
nothing seemed to be working. Finally, she contacted the Tufts University
Petfax program. Remarkably, a problem of several years' standing was then
solved within a very short period of time. They recommended Prozac (which
she gets by prescription from her vet). This was a "last resort" rather than
the first thing she tried, and it sounds like you are in a similar
situation. Please ask your vet about trying a similar regimen for your cat.
It is important to keep her indoors where she will be safe, and it is also
important for you to have a comfortable living situation. My sister's cat
has had *no* ill effects after several years on Prozac, and he is now a
happy cat enjoying the full use of her home.

I realize from one of your messages that it would be difficult for you to
pill your cat. Many people have been able to use a pill popper on
otherwise-impossible cats because it literally takes only a second to use.
You do not have to pry the cat's mouth open - it is quickly inserted into
the back "corner" of the mouth. You could also try pill pockets - insert the
Prozac in the pill pocket and then hide the pill in your cat's food. I
believe Prozac is also available by prescription as a cream that can be
gently rubbed on the inside of your cat's ear. Please talk to your vet about
trying a similar treatment plan.

Thank you for caring enough to seek advice, and please keep us updated.

Photos of Duffy and Holly: 'o'
Duffy: http://tinyurl.com/cslwf
Holly: http://tinyurl.com/9t68o
Duffy and Holly together: http://tinyurl.com/8b47e