Frequent urination - other causes?

I thought Meep was having a cystitis attack this morning. She was going
to the litterbox every 10 minutes or so, but not actually leaving more
than a small amount behind. She did not seem distressed or in pain.
So, of course, I called the vet, and called work to tell them I'd be late.

Then, of course, she stopped, and went to bed, as she does in the morning.

Took her to the vet, nothing in particular was found, temperature
normal, bladder had some urine but not much, no physically palpable
signs of cystitis (vet did not take a urine sample). "She is not
blocked". They took bloods. I mentioned my concern about her recent
weight loss. No treatment was suggested.

So I took her home, and went to work.

Came home, litterbox had not been used, she was still sleeping. Now
that she's gotten up though, she's still going to the litterbox every 10
or 15 minutes, sometimes leaving a little urine behind, sometimes
leaving none at all. I've watched her, it really doesn't look like
she's in pain or straining, just nothing's coming out.

I'm thinking that she is feeling like she needs to pee, even if she
doesn't actually.

Anybody have any experience with this?

jmc

I am not a veterinarian but it sounds exactly like something that
occurred with my cat Max. We had a very similar incident.

I had noticed some inappropriate urinating with Max... he was not
using the litterbox.

When I took him to the vet they told me he was not blocked because if
he was, his bladder would be quite large. But I know that he had
managed to eliminate most of his urine just prior to going to the vets
office and so they kept him to observe him and the next day they
called me to tell me that, in fact, he was blocked again.

It is possible, I think, that your cat, prior to visiting the vets
office, eliminated his/her urine. The vet then determined that your
cat (my Max) wasn't blocked because if the cat was blocked that
bladder would have been a lot fuller.

If the cat is not using the litterbox it is a pretty good sign
something is wrong, and sometimes even with blockages they do manage
to eliminate their urine.

I sincerely hope this helps, but even more so that you and your vet
can figure out the cause.

Good luck ;-)

I apologize to have made the last post sooooo long! All I am trying to
say is that when cats become blocked they may not show all the signs.

I was not there at the vets office when they checked Max, but I can
tell you he did not appear to have any blockage when I first brought
him in to the vet, however, after keeping him over night they found
that he was, in fact, blocked.

And it sounds like you kitty isn't using the litterbox as normal.

Thanks, hope much success with finally getting to the problem.

Melissa

"jmc" wrote in message
...
I thought Meep was having a cystitis attack this morning. She was going
to the litterbox every 10 minutes or so, but not actually leaving more
than a small amount behind. She did not seem distressed or in pain.
So, of course, I called the vet, and called work to tell them I'd be late.

Then, of course, she stopped, and went to bed, as she does in the morning.

Took her to the vet, nothing in particular was found, temperature
normal, bladder had some urine but not much, no physically palpable
signs of cystitis (vet did not take a urine sample). "She is not
blocked". They took bloods. I mentioned my concern about her recent
weight loss. No treatment was suggested.

So I took her home, and went to work.

Came home, litterbox had not been used, she was still sleeping. Now
that she's gotten up though, she's still going to the litterbox every 10
or 15 minutes, sometimes leaving a little urine behind, sometimes
leaving none at all. I've watched her, it really doesn't look like
she's in pain or straining, just nothing's coming out.

I'm thinking that she is feeling like she needs to pee, even if she
doesn't actually.



That's a classic sign of interstitial cystitis. Inflammation in the bladder
and/or urethra of cats with interstitial cystitis causes a nervous sensation
that mimics the sensation that's normally induced by a full bladder. The
nervous impulses that control urination are constantly stimulated so that
the urge to urinate is constant whether the bladder is full or empty.

Phil

Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (3/12/2008 6:17 AM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
I thought Meep was having a cystitis attack this morning. She was going
to the litterbox every 10 minutes or so, but not actually leaving more
than a small amount behind. She did not seem distressed or in pain.
So, of course, I called the vet, and called work to tell them I'd be late.

Then, of course, she stopped, and went to bed, as she does in the morning.

Took her to the vet, nothing in particular was found, temperature
normal, bladder had some urine but not much, no physically palpable
signs of cystitis (vet did not take a urine sample). "She is not
blocked". They took bloods. I mentioned my concern about her recent
weight loss. No treatment was suggested.

So I took her home, and went to work.

Came home, litterbox had not been used, she was still sleeping. Now
that she's gotten up though, she's still going to the litterbox every 10
or 15 minutes, sometimes leaving a little urine behind, sometimes
leaving none at all. I've watched her, it really doesn't look like
she's in pain or straining, just nothing's coming out.

I'm thinking that she is feeling like she needs to pee, even if she
doesn't actually.



That's a classic sign of interstitial cystitis. Inflammation in the bladder
and/or urethra of cats with interstitial cystitis causes a nervous sensation
that mimics the sensation that's normally induced by a full bladder. The
nervous impulses that control urination are constantly stimulated so that
the urge to urinate is constant whether the bladder is full or empty.

Phil



If it isn't caused by a bacteria (they usually give her an antibiotic,
but I don't think that's the issue) what is the usual treatment in the
US? She's still doing it, but not as frequently as before. Still
without the urgency/distress she has show during previous cystitis attacks.

jmc

I had this happen to me many years ago. After climbing Mt. Carragain
(in NH) as my final 4000 footer, we celebrated on top with some sort of
alcoholic beverage (whisky sours?). I was dehydrated from a strenuous
climb and should have been drinking lots of water. On the trip back
down I had constant urges to urinate but could produce nothing. This
continued for the whole five miles and on into the evening. A very
uncomfortable sensation.


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')

Again, I am not a veterinarian, but my thoughts are that anti-biotics
are prescribed because of the inflamation in the bladder (as Phil
wrote) and also possibly as a precautionary measure. I know that
cystitis issues can also cause damage to the urethra.

My cat had to undergo the surgery for the same problem. However, some
people are able to address the issue with specific drugs and diet may
actually play a very significant role as well.

My understanding, limited as it may be, is that cystitis can recur and
symptoms may come and go as was apparent with my cat.

I hope you can find help for your kitty or, better yet, the symptoms
disapear for good.

Take care.

"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (3/12/2008 6:17 AM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
I thought Meep was having a cystitis attack this morning. She was
going
to the litterbox every 10 minutes or so, but not actually leaving more
than a small amount behind. She did not seem distressed or in pain.
So, of course, I called the vet, and called work to tell them I'd be
late.

Then, of course, she stopped, and went to bed, as she does in the
morning.

Took her to the vet, nothing in particular was found, temperature
normal, bladder had some urine but not much, no physically palpable
signs of cystitis (vet did not take a urine sample). "She is not
blocked". They took bloods. I mentioned my concern about her recent
weight loss. No treatment was suggested.

So I took her home, and went to work.

Came home, litterbox had not been used, she was still sleeping. Now
that she's gotten up though, she's still going to the litterbox every
10
or 15 minutes, sometimes leaving a little urine behind, sometimes
leaving none at all. I've watched her, it really doesn't look like
she's in pain or straining, just nothing's coming out.

I'm thinking that she is feeling like she needs to pee, even if she
doesn't actually.



That's a classic sign of interstitial cystitis. Inflammation in the
bladder
and/or urethra of cats with interstitial cystitis causes a nervous
sensation
that mimics the sensation that's normally induced by a full bladder. The
nervous impulses that control urination are constantly stimulated so
that
the urge to urinate is constant whether the bladder is full or empty.

Phil



If it isn't caused by a bacteria (they usually give her an antibiotic,

Interstitial cystitis in cats is believed to be caused by a defect in the
GAG (glycosaminoglycan) layer that coats the bladder wall (epithelium) and
allows urine to penetrate the urothelium (the special epithelium of the
bladder) and induce inflammation. Another theory is that cats with FIC have
an increased density of sensory afferent neurons in the bladder which makes
them more sensitive to some components in urine. It could be either/or or
combination of both because the standard treatment seems to work in either
case. But then again, FIC is self-limiting so its difficult to tell what
really works.


but I don't think that's the issue) what is the usual treatment in the
US?

First: Minimize stress as much as possible. Stress can aggravate the
symptoms or even trigger an attack.

Second: Feed only canned food. The higher water intake dilutes noxious
substances in the urine. The higher water intake also results in more
frequent urination which reduces bladder contact with urine.

Third: A GAG supplement (Cosequin for Cats) to help maintain the GAG layer
of the bladder.

Fourth: Amitriptyline- a tricyclic antidepressant drug because it reduces
stress and also has analgesic properties. I think amitriptyline should only
be used in cats that stress out easily.


hth,

Best of luck,

Phil

Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (3/12/2008 5:55 PM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (3/12/2008 6:17 AM):
"jmc" wrote in message
...
I thought Meep was having a cystitis attack this morning. She was
going
to the litterbox every 10 minutes or so, but not actually leaving more
than a small amount behind. She did not seem distressed or in pain.
So, of course, I called the vet, and called work to tell them I'd be
late.
Then, of course, she stopped, and went to bed, as she does in the
morning.
Took her to the vet, nothing in particular was found, temperature
normal, bladder had some urine but not much, no physically palpable
signs of cystitis (vet did not take a urine sample). "She is not
blocked". They took bloods. I mentioned my concern about her recent
weight loss. No treatment was suggested.

So I took her home, and went to work.

Came home, litterbox had not been used, she was still sleeping. Now
that she's gotten up though, she's still going to the litterbox every
10
or 15 minutes, sometimes leaving a little urine behind, sometimes
leaving none at all. I've watched her, it really doesn't look like
she's in pain or straining, just nothing's coming out.

I'm thinking that she is feeling like she needs to pee, even if she
doesn't actually.


That's a classic sign of interstitial cystitis. Inflammation in the
bladder
and/or urethra of cats with interstitial cystitis causes a nervous
sensation
that mimics the sensation that's normally induced by a full bladder. The
nervous impulses that control urination are constantly stimulated so
that
the urge to urinate is constant whether the bladder is full or empty.

Phil


If it isn't caused by a bacteria (they usually give her an antibiotic,

Interstitial cystitis in cats is believed to be caused by a defect in the
GAG (glycosaminoglycan) layer that coats the bladder wall (epithelium) and
allows urine to penetrate the urothelium (the special epithelium of the
bladder) and induce inflammation. Another theory is that cats with FIC have
an increased density of sensory afferent neurons in the bladder which makes
them more sensitive to some components in urine. It could be either/or or
combination of both because the standard treatment seems to work in either
case. But then again, FIC is self-limiting so its difficult to tell what
really works.


but I don't think that's the issue) what is the usual treatment in the
US?

First: Minimize stress as much as possible. Stress can aggravate the
symptoms or even trigger an attack.

Second: Feed only canned food. The higher water intake dilutes noxious
substances in the urine. The higher water intake also results in more
frequent urination which reduces bladder contact with urine.

Third: A GAG supplement (Cosequin for Cats) to help maintain the GAG layer
of the bladder.

Fourth: Amitriptyline- a tricyclic antidepressant drug because it reduces
stress and also has analgesic properties. I think amitriptyline should only
be used in cats that stress out easily.


hth,

Best of luck,

Phil





Phil:

She gets only canned food, with added water and a Glucosamine
supplement. I also give her a methiodine (sp?) supplement when I think
an attack is imminent, she's gotten the stated dose for two days now.
She seems to have cleared up on her own this time.

The bloods came back with slightly elevated glucose levels ("stress
induced raised glucose" is what the vet said; some slight signs of liver
damage, and no signs of infection. It was suggested I approve a test
for hyperthyroid, which I have done.

Vet has also suggested some sort of anti-stress drug (something -calm,
dunno active ingredient) which I'm considering, since we've friends over
next week then start getting ready to move back to the US.

My poor, stressy cat. I wish I could just tell her "chill out dude"!

jmc

Suddenly, without warning, Phil P. exclaimed (3/12/2008 5:55 PM):

Fourth: Amitriptyline- a tricyclic antidepressant drug because it reduces
stress and also has analgesic properties. I think amitriptyline should only
be used in cats that stress out easily.


hth,

Best of luck,

Phil


Phil:

We put Meep on Clomicalm - 5mg clomipramine hydrochloride 1/day. Not
sure if it's the right medicine for her or not, especially since a
possible side effect is urinary retention and says to use with caution
with pets with known predisposition to develop urinary tract obstruction
- something I would think would be really bad for a cat with cystitis.

So far, all it has done is make her quite lethargic, and not quite
herself, but I understand that this is supposed to be transient as she
gets used to the medication. Any idea how long that takes?

Do you think I should go back to the vet and see about getting her on
amitriptyline instead?

jmc